Swarovski prices going up 7%? (1 Viewer)

[Troubador]

I believe the difference will be more for some and less for others depending on multiple reasons like age , eyesight, viewing conditions etc. etc. No matter how small or large one feels the differences are, the concept of if it’s worth it or not, is completely 100% subjective. One can see a tiny difference and say it’s not worth it and others can see a major difference and say it’s not worth it, while others will feel the direct opposite. So this whole conversation if the best optics is worth X amount of dollars more then very good , is a complete rabbit hole. That is what some like to do here.

Happy new year

Paul

For sure, different folks have different ways of enjoying their binoculars.

Me? Unless I am reviewing a binocular I pay little or no attention to the one I am looking through as I am more interested in what I am looking at. Often this is a bird, but almost as often it is something else. When I contemplated buying a Zeiss SF8x32 it wasn't the thought of being able to assess the size of its sweet spot or what balance of aberrations Zeiss have chosen for it. We use our binoculars most intensively in the west of Scotland and there we look at Grey Seals and Otters, at Oystercatchers and Greenshanks, at Twite and Grey Herons, at Marsh Fritillaries and Gold-banded Dragonflies, and I have thoroughly enjoyed doing this whether the binoculars were priced at around £300 or around £2,000.

Lee

 

[Canip]

….. if the price of premium binoculars ends up further inflated (seemingly for no other reason than manufacturers pushing the envelope)……

Why do you suggest they are just „pushing the envelope“?

I believe nobody gets rich quickly by selling consumer optics. I also have the feeling that the premium optics may have even lower margins (revenue minus cost) than the middle class products which can be produced more efficiently. Just a guess, of course, but don‘t the replacement of the EDG by the MHG and more recently the appearance of the SFL, for which I see a certain risk of cannibalization of SF sales, tell a story? The most expensive handheld bino, the Nikon WX, has almost certainly been a big financial loss for Nikon.

As other posters in this and other threads on BF have said, people will be paying premium prices as long as they think it makes sense for them, and manufacturers may offer premium products at premium prices as long as they can make a decent profit with them. Often, such profit gets too low to make sense, and binos disappear form the market (EDG).

I sometimes get the feeling that people may think premium prices are unfair, since not everyone can afford them. But this forum gives sufficient evidence that there are so many excellent binoculars in the upper middle class and middle class segments at moderate prices that avid birders don‘t really HAVE to get a premium binocular for their hobby.

Canip

 

[Redneckbmxer24]

Swarovski,Zeiss and Leica are already over priced, how much longer will they be able to maintain these asking prices with their competitors from China and Japan supplying near Alpha quality optics at a fraction of the cost.

If you really believe China and Japan are putting out alpha level glass, then you haven't spent much time with alpha glass.

China is making some decent glass compared to a decade ago but it still sucks in comparison.

Japan always has produced some excellent optics, they make some excellent binoculars, I own some. They’re the best bang for the buck in glass, but they’re no Swaros and I have no regrets about buying yet another EL.

 

[Paultricounty]

Why do you suggest they are just „pushing the envelope“?

I believe nobody gets rich quickly by selling consumer optics. I also have the feeling that the premium optics may have even lower margins (revenue minus cost) than the middle class products which can be produced more efficiently. Just a guess, of course, but don‘t the replacement of the EDG by the MHG and more recently the appearance of the SFL, for which I see a certain risk of cannibalization of SF sales, tell a story? The most expensive handheld bino, the Nikon WX, has almost certainly been a big financial loss for Nikon.

As other posters in this and other threads on BF have said, people will be paying premium prices as long as they think it makes sense for them, and manufacturers may offer premium products at premium prices as long as they can make a decent profit with them. Often, such profit gets too low to make sense, and binos disappear form the market (EDG).

I sometimes get the feeling that people may think premium prices are unfair, since not everyone can afford them. But this forum gives sufficient evidence that there are so many excellent binoculars in the upper middle class and middle class segments at moderate prices that avid birders don‘t really HAVE to get a premium binocular for their hobby.

Canip

Absolutely the truth, some incredible products coming from China in the last 10 years. Take a look at the great glass (and build) for $300-$500 from Nikon M5, M7, Zeiss Terra, Vortex Vipers. These are incredibly good optical tools that will give you extraordinary beautiful views of nature. As Lee just said, unless reviewing an optic we are looking through it , and these very affordable options will give the observer everything they need to spot the smallest details of objects. Surely in the next 10 years China will be producing optics on the same level as Zeiss , Swarovski and Leica and at a more affordable price.

Think about how good those binoculars I mentioned have become. They are better than most all of the top binoculars being produced twenty or so years ago. Yes , I get the fact that technology has improved but so has the manufacturing and quality control of Chinese products.

Paul

 

[tehri]

The conversation took another direction, but why not, it's the pleasure of talking !
But really, experience tells me that some, use the power of their eyes, their ability to SEE, but most, in my experience, have shit in their eyes, to put it bluntly and simply !! ahaha !! It's exactly the same with hearing, etc, or any other sense and related abilities.
I lead, among other things, plastic arts workshops with adults, children, and I still find it incredible that most see nothing, perceive nothing !! They look at, yes, but do not SEE !
Also, I can be given any brand of binoculars, Bushnell, Carson, Hawke, GPO, Kite, Maven, Vortex, etc etc etc, I know perfectly well why I am a fan of Swarovski (like others of Zeiss or Leica ) !!! It's so obvious !! It's just about giving his eyes the instruments they deserve... Eyes are such powerful, wonderful organs, much more than that, windows to the world !
Most, in my opinion, are content to open the doors ajar, nothing more, and are happy like that, why not ?... But if you have the ability to open these doors wide, bringing an instrument of very high optical quality to your eyes really makes, by far, so much difference ! No discussion !!
It makes the real world 'glitter', brings it to another level of perception... some can perceive it, and some can't... no problem, and no need for them to invest 2000 - 4000€, that's all !

(°v°)

 

[Paultricounty]

The conversation took another direction, but why not, it's the pleasure of talking !
But really, experience tells me that some, use the power of their eyes, their ability to SEE, but most, in my experience, have shit in their eyes, to put it bluntly and simply !! ahaha !! It's exactly the same with hearing, etc, or any other sense and related abilities.
I lead, among other things, plastic arts workshops with adults, children, and I still find it incredible that most see nothing, perceive nothing !! They look at, yes, but do not SEE !
Also, I can be given any brand of binoculars, Bushnell, Carson, Hawke, GPO, Kite, Maven, Vortex, etc etc etc, I know perfectly well why I am a fan of Swarovski (like others of Zeiss or Leica ) !!! It's so obvious !! It's just about giving his eyes the instruments they deserve... Eyes are such powerful, wonderful organs, much more than that, windows to the world !
Most, in my opinion, are content to open the doors ajar, nothing more, and are happy like that, why not ?... But if you have the ability to open these doors wide, bringing an instrument of very high optical quality to your eyes really makes, by far, so much difference ! No discussion !!
It makes the real world 'glitter', brings it to another level of perception... some can perceive it, and some can't... no problem, and no need for them to invest 2000 - 4000€, that's all !

(°v°)

I call it pop and breathtaking. I looked through that Vortex Viper or the M7 and say to my self, what nice glass. Then I look through an NL or Noctivid and I go WOW!

By the way my listens to me , but doesn’t hear me. 😜

happy new year

Paul

 

[Conndomat]

But really, experience tells me that some, use the power of their eyes, their ability to SEE, but most, in my experience, have shit in their eyes, to put it bluntly and simply !! ahaha !! It's exactly the same with hearing, etc, or any other sense and related abilities.
I lead, among other things, plastic arts workshops with adults, children, and I still find it incredible that most see nothing, perceive nothing !! They look at, yes, but do not SEE !

That's too fatalistic for me.
People can learn to use their senses better, but it takes time and will to do so.

I have taught classical guitar for many years, students' hearing has improved over the years, some faster, others slower, but there has almost always been an improvement.

And the sense of sight can also be sharpened, a short story...

My girlfriend used a cheap 10x42 binocular for years, the picture was horrible, all colors were bathed in green/brown, the glass was dark and the sharpness wasn't good either, a real cucumber.
At some point I gave her a Zeiss FL 8x32 I expected .. "wow what a picture" but nothing, the reaction was "the Zeiss is only a bit brighter."
She then used the Zeiss for a few weeks and months, at some point she looked through her old glass and then said that she could no longer use the glass because the picture was terrible.
In the meantime, she can recognize small differences in high-quality binoculars that I sometimes don't even notice.

I think when people spend a lot of time doing something, they learn, each at their own pace and at their own options.

Andreas

 

[pm42]

That's too fatalistic for me.
People can learn to use their senses better, but it takes time and will to do so.

I could not agree more. I had the same experience with HiFi, wine and almost everything I got interested in. At first, you do not perceive differences and everything is "maybe better" but in the same league.
But as you learn, focus your senses, have more experience, it changes. A lot.

 

[Scott98]

If you really believe China and Japan are putting out alpha level glass, then you haven't spent much time with alpha glass.

Hmmmm....don't like seeing Japan lumped in there. Nikon and Fujinon are making bino optics that are easily among the best available. I find that Leica and Swaro have nice glass but struggle mightily with making a good focuser as well.

The Japanese optics industry is thriving in comparison to Europe or the USA. The Japanese company Optron makes some of the finest optics in the world for many applications.

The Chinese industry is definitely capable of making the best optics. I read that Zeiss shut down most of its optics-making activity (not just binos - everything) and actually moved its manufacturing equipment to China, and paid the German employees to go to China to train the workers how to run the machines.

Any company that invests enough capital into manufacturing can produce top optics. The sad part is the cost savings therefore derives from the lesser civil rights of the employees and the unregulated pollution from the factory going into the air, ground, and water.

 

[Rotherbirder]

When I want to be wiser in relation to the purchase of binoculars, I look at this picture
View attachment 1486212
In the picture he is one of the greatest bird watchers in the world! Chandler Robbins

Precisely; the act of 'birding' happens in the brain of the birder, the binoculars are just a tool, the means to an end. What importance you place in them, how much you spend on them and how well you look after them is up to buyer/owner/user.

For me, the proposed price rise pushes the price of an ATC well beyond what I'm prepared to pay so, no more new Swarovskis for me! No doubt the other Alpha brands will follow suit.

RB

 

[Paultricounty]

That's too fatalistic for me.
People can learn to use their senses better, but it takes time and will to do so.

I have taught classical guitar for many years, students' hearing has improved over the years, some faster, others slower, but there has almost always been an improvement.

And the sense of sight can also be sharpened, a short story...

My girlfriend used a cheap 10x42 binocular for years, the picture was horrible, all colors were bathed in green/brown, the glass was dark and the sharpness wasn't good either, a real cucumber.
At some point I gave her a Zeiss FL 8x32 I expected .. "wow what a picture" but nothing, the reaction was "the Zeiss is only a bit brighter."
She then used the Zeiss for a few weeks and months, at some point she looked through her old glass and then said that she could no longer use the glass because the picture was terrible.
In the meantime, she can recognize small differences in high-quality binoculars that I sometimes don't even notice.

I think when people spend a lot of time doing something, they learn, each at their own pace and at their own options.

Andreas

You should’ve handed her a Leica😜. She would’ve seen the difference right away. 🙏🏼

Happy new year.

 

[Paultricounty]

Hmmmm....don't like seeing Japan lumped in there. Nikon and Fujinon are making bino optics that are easily among the best available. I find that Leica and Swaro have nice glass but struggle mightily with making a good focuser as well.

The Japanese optics industry is thriving in comparison to Europe or the USA. The Japanese company Optron makes some of the finest optics in the world for many applications.

The Chinese industry is definitely capable of making the best optics. I read that Zeiss shut down most of its optics-making activity (not just binos - everything) and actually moved its manufacturing equipment to China, and paid the German employees to go to China to train the workers how to run the machines.

Any company that invests enough capital into manufacturing can produce top optics. The sad part is the cost savings therefore derives from the lesser civil rights of the employees and the unregulated pollution from the factory going into the air, ground, and water.

It seems that companies don’t care about any of that if it’s not their people or their water and air. Sellouts.

 

[dries1]

If you really believe China and Japan are putting out alpha level glass, then you haven't spent much time with alpha glass.

China is making some decent glass compared to a decade ago but it still sucks in comparison.

Japan always has produced some excellent optics, they make some excellent binoculars, I own some. They’re the best bang for the buck in glass, but they’re no Swaros and I have no regrets about buying yet another EL.

What Nikon Binoculars do you own?, out of curiosity.

 

[Paultricounty]

Precisely; the act of 'birding' happens in the brain of the birder, the binoculars are just a tool, the means to an end. What importance you place in them, how much you spend on them and how well you look after them is up to buyer/owner/user.

For me, the proposed price rise pushes the price of an ATC well beyond what I'm prepared to pay so, no more new Swarovskis for me! No doubt the other Alpha brands will follow suit.

RB

Always comes down to money, doesn’t it? Especially when the price and availability of heating and auto fuel is so difficult. I guess that’s not our fault, we have to blame it on the politicians. Wait a second aren’t we the ones that vote them into office. Sorry, my bad. 🤫

 

[Patudo]

I think it would be a shame if it was decided that premium binoculars are going to significantly increase in price just ‘because’.

It might be interesting to go ask any business that has had to raise prices in the current economic climate if they are doing it "just because".

That skilled optical workers are paid decent wages is part of the reason why outstanding binoculars are still produced with pride in Germany and Japan, while great British optics names like Barr & Stroud now sell rebranded PRC product.

 

[dries1]

The asking price for an NL pure 8X32 is now $2,769, now that is what retailers are asking, not that one would pay this, however it is quite high. I know folks will continue to buy them as was stated in an earlier post, however with other optical manufacturers getting better, will the pool of perspective buyers begin to decrease?

 

[tehri]

The asking price for an NL pure 8X32 is now $2,769

!!!! Whaaahhh !!.... Here is 2241$ !

 

[chill6x6]

The asking price for an NL pure 8X32 is now $2,769, now that is what retailers are asking, not that one would pay this, however it is quite high. I know folks will continue to buy them as was stated in an earlier post, however with other optical manufacturers getting better, will the pool of perspective buyers begin to decrease?

Wow! They really have gone up! The NL 10X42 I just bought has gone from $3099 to $3369! Same retailer might I add. Good grief!

It CAN still be found at the previous price but eventually......

 

[Will K]

The UK price for a 12x42 is still £2550. But that might change in the next few weeks.

I'm curious to know if I bought at the right time, so I'll keep an eye open.

 

[GrampaTom]

Wow! They really have gone up! The NL 10X42 I just bought has gone from $3099 to $3369! Same retailer might I add. Good grief!

Admittedly why I bought when I did. Thanks to Paultricountry for the heads up...