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Norfolk Shark eats Seal (its in the Sun) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter nigelblake
- Start date
NoSpringChicken
Well-known member
I blame unemployed crop circle creators myself. Shame it's written in such a typically lurid Sun style. Do Great Whites only take one bite or was it disappointed to find it wasn't an Aussie surfer?
Actually it is quite interesting and I will look forward to any further developments.
Ron
Actually it is quite interesting and I will look forward to any further developments.
Ron
Woodchatshrike
Registered User
Killer Whale?
Barred Wobbler
Well-known member
If it's a shark it's more likely to be a porbeagle. They are relatively common in the north sea and they get big. The UK rod-caught record is about 480 lb (from memory).
They are in the same family as makos and great whites, but not so sensational. They more often make the papers when they end up on a fishmonger's slab when they get caught in cod-nets by accident.
And the bit about the attack being from below - seals underwater spend all their time twisting and turning and rolling all over the place. Even when they are resting at the surface they often hang vertically. "Below" is a concept barely known to them.
Edit. The record's gone up to 507 lb. It's a while since I've checked and they've obviously caught at least one bigger.
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/aquarium/pages/porbeagleshark.html
They are in the same family as makos and great whites, but not so sensational. They more often make the papers when they end up on a fishmonger's slab when they get caught in cod-nets by accident.
And the bit about the attack being from below - seals underwater spend all their time twisting and turning and rolling all over the place. Even when they are resting at the surface they often hang vertically. "Below" is a concept barely known to them.
Edit. The record's gone up to 507 lb. It's a while since I've checked and they've obviously caught at least one bigger.
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/aquarium/pages/porbeagleshark.html
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Isurus
Well-known member
I agree - big bite for a porbeagle though; what a fish!
What has been found on a few of these carcasses before is that small bites (and on occasion no bites) get opened up into huge semi-circular GWS-looking bites by foxes, gulls etc post mortem. Would be interested in seeing analysis of the bite itself. Hopefully some better photos are going to Ian Fergusson or one of the other UK shark specialists as we type.
What has been found on a few of these carcasses before is that small bites (and on occasion no bites) get opened up into huge semi-circular GWS-looking bites by foxes, gulls etc post mortem. Would be interested in seeing analysis of the bite itself. Hopefully some better photos are going to Ian Fergusson or one of the other UK shark specialists as we type.
kittykat23uk
Well-known member
Yeah could be a porbeagle, a mako or a great white. Surely a shark expert could work that out by the bite pattern though?
Farnboro John
Well-known member
I'd be interested to have some scale on this. If that's a six foot seal - I can see its not a male so not near the top end of Grey Seal size - then the bite width must be between a foot and eighteen inches. Even for a 500 pound Porbeagle that would be a helluva big jaw.
As for the bite being from below its plain from the photo that its not, its from the seal's left side.
Anyway I think it must be common ground among us that Great Whites are in our waters: they are cold water sharks that feed on marine mammals and we have lots of both cold water and seals. All we have been waiting for is some level of proof. I admit I was surprised at the claim of Basking Shark in Cornwall the other day and felt I wouldn't like to swim in the cove where it was claimed. At this time of year BS are pelagic and deep down.
What interests me is what stopped it taking a second bite?
John
PS: I think a Killer Whale bite would be more ragged, the teeth are big pegs for gripping, not slashing: flesh is torn free by head shaking. J
As for the bite being from below its plain from the photo that its not, its from the seal's left side.
Anyway I think it must be common ground among us that Great Whites are in our waters: they are cold water sharks that feed on marine mammals and we have lots of both cold water and seals. All we have been waiting for is some level of proof. I admit I was surprised at the claim of Basking Shark in Cornwall the other day and felt I wouldn't like to swim in the cove where it was claimed. At this time of year BS are pelagic and deep down.
What interests me is what stopped it taking a second bite?
John
PS: I think a Killer Whale bite would be more ragged, the teeth are big pegs for gripping, not slashing: flesh is torn free by head shaking. J
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Isurus
Well-known member
Possibly - depends on the level of damage after the bite though. I think the article mentioned serrations which I think would rule out the two extant mako species he says very hesitantly while staring at the serrated fossil makos on his desk.
Isurus
Well-known member
Actually John I'll disagree on GWS in UK waters - they should be here I agree but the absence of evidence after all this time in such heavily fished waters makes me err towards thinking probably not for some reason although I await proof in the hope it turns up.
NoSpringChicken
Well-known member
My initial reply was a bit light hearted but I can't help thinking that it wouldn't be impossible to fake a thing like that. A dead seal could be carefully doctored by somebody with a bit of relevant knowledge and the carcass placed at the base of the lifeboat ramp for the crew member, who just happens to have an interest in sharks, to discover. It is a very neat, single bite.
I'm not saying it is a fake but I would prefer to keep an open mind until it has been examined by a recognised expert. Conspiracy theories, moi?
Ron
I'm not saying it is a fake but I would prefer to keep an open mind until it has been examined by a recognised expert. Conspiracy theories, moi?
Ron
Farnboro John
Well-known member
Many of our seal colonies are in remote areas (some are not, admittedly) or in uniformly shallow waters that might mitigate against the sort of vertical attacks that attract attention. Sharks, unlike Orcas, are not tied to the surface. Our waters are frequently stormy, including at the times when Grey Seals pup. These factors reduce the chance of an actual sighting.
Elsewhere in the world (you may well be in a position to contradict this) I know of only a few places where GWS are seen regularly enough to be visited by those wanting to see them: False Bay, Seal Island and Dyer Island in South Africa; the Farallons off California; Dangerous Reef in Australia. They aren't guaranteed on a particular day anywhere I don't think?
It will be interesting to watch for any follow-up on this story. I am mildly surprised not to have seen it leap to the rest of the media, maybe they detect a whiff of rat in the air.
John
kittykat23uk
Well-known member
It was on BBC look east last night as well. They reckoned the bite was about a foot wide..
bedfontbirder
Well-known member
Gws
From the many documentaries around it is not unusual for a GWS to take a single bite and then leave its victim. The normal approach is to attack with one bite and leave the victim to bleed to death before going back to feed, thus preventing any damage to its eyes from a thrashing seal.
I don't know if this particular instance is a GWS, there are plenty of shark spp in our waters.
Incidentally, wasn't there a GWS corpse washed up in Scotland somr time back?
Cheers,
Adam
From the many documentaries around it is not unusual for a GWS to take a single bite and then leave its victim. The normal approach is to attack with one bite and leave the victim to bleed to death before going back to feed, thus preventing any damage to its eyes from a thrashing seal.
I don't know if this particular instance is a GWS, there are plenty of shark spp in our waters.
Incidentally, wasn't there a GWS corpse washed up in Scotland somr time back?
Cheers,
Adam
Farnboro John
Well-known member
Yes, I've seen that on TV as well. So what stopped it going back?
Hadn't heard of corpse. Whoopee, its a Cat D species at least!
John
Isurus
Well-known member
John I totally agree regarding chance sightings (which is precisely why so many of these sun reports reek of string and mis-id). However in other places GWS are/were found fishing has tended to reveal them through one means or another (eg Malta, Sicily, The Eastern USA, NZ). If they are here (and once again I can't understand why not) they are exceptionally rare or our fishing tradition should've revealed them. Its perhaps worth pointing out this is not a global warming/temperature thing - we've always had perfect conditions for them. Its also worth noting the paucity of records from other areas nearby (Only a couple from the Bay of Biscay for example I think). I know the whole absence of proof isn't proof of absence thing but I'm just not at all convinced yet - speaking of which some of the discussion of this on the old shark trust forum was Ivorybill-tastic!
I think the only place you can really guarantee them is Guadelupe Island in season. I can tell you from painful dipping experience that the Saffer ones aren't guaranteed.:C
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Wildwood
Well-known member
A little less sensational report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/7169415.stm
'Mr Taylor, who found the carcass of the 4ft (1.2m) adult seal..'.
Also click on the video news link.. top right.
'Mr Taylor, who found the carcass of the 4ft (1.2m) adult seal..'.
Also click on the video news link.. top right.
Barred Wobbler
Well-known member
"The find follows a series of shark sightings off the Cornish coast.
Footage of a shark off St Ives is now thought to have been a porbeagle shark rather than a great white."
Surprise, Surprise!
Now why didn't that bit become headline news, I wonder?|^|
Footage of a shark off St Ives is now thought to have been a porbeagle shark rather than a great white."
Surprise, Surprise!
Now why didn't that bit become headline news, I wonder?|^|
Farnboro John
Well-known member
The old ruler up against the screen now suggests the bite is just under ten inches across - assuming the seal was 4 feet long - which probably brings it back within reach of other shark species being possibilities, but doesn't rule out GWS. The tooth marks may need analysing now, I think the triangular saw edged teeth are diagnostic, or do other requiem sharks have them?
John
Isurus
Well-known member
Neither mako does, nor does Porbeagle. Interestingly small GWS don't either so the question of scale becomes relevant. A 6-gill may be an option - I believe one was implicated in last years' bitten carcasses (or suggested to be).
bitterntwisted
Graham Howard Shortt
Would a sixgill shark occur in the shallow waters of the North Sea? Only records a quick google finds are off the west coasts of the British Isles?
Graham
Graham
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