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Norfolk birding (16 Viewers)

Thank goodness you decided to post Rob!
I echo all of your comments and appreicate you posting as you did.
I was happy with a number of Long-tails I saw, including 2 or more Juveniles, and appreciated the help and experience of those around me (including Pomskua who has put in a remarkable amount of time sea watching this year, familiarising himself with the 'commoner' birds)

I agree with Rob, Hudwit (presumably short for something), it would be good to see you at the next seawatch at sheringham (when maybe we can find out ho you are)

Pomskua, keep it up - it really was a great sea watch.

David
PS how can I change my profile so that I can be known by my real name - I don't need to hide behind a fake name any more!!!!;) (or do I!)
 
Hello, first of all apologies this is rather a long post but i'm getting hammered here.

first of all i think its great that this debate is going on, and i think the first thing to emphasise is that it is a debate and if it remains maturely so then i reckon it will be pretty beneficial to everyone.

Secondly i can definitely understand why eyebrows are being raised about the number of LTS seen at Sheringham yesterday and not just from other sites, went down the shelters this morning and all the birders from yesterday have varying numbers - 4,8,9,1...

For my part, i don't know exactly how many i saw because i prefer not to be distracted by counting when i'm watching, need to be concentrated and relaxed so i don't take notes. What i do know is that our section let go at least 4 birds as Skua sp and there were at least two birds that i didn't count myself although other happy with them (but i have no doubt these were also LTS, i also missed 1. To answer the question regarding 'Skua sp' i simply don't do 'skua sp', i know nature is all about murky grey areas (especially when it comes to LTS ID ; - ) but i can't iD i just forget about - maybe i shouldn't i don't know!

The story of the day (and i will be as honest as i can possibly get on this). The first thing to know was this was a very strange seawatch, hardly any wind and as i result all the Skuas were in relaxed flight flying quite high above the horizon. Secondly i was in a section with someone who i and many others consider probably to be the best seawatcher in Norfolk, hes been going since the 70's what i have learnt from him so far has been invaluable. Also in my section was another extremely competent observer and we seemed to get one other voice from the section to our left again a very recognisable and excellent birder. For myself personally, ive been perfecting the 1000 yard stare for the last twenty years and i think ive sort of got my eye in! was able to call numerous stuff throughout - around 8 LTS, 2 Sabs, Balearic etc, this may sound bigheaded but i just want to say my record on land birds is pretty poor just always feel more tuned into the sea (read this as you may) so overall consider myself fairly average - still learning though ; - ) . Overall i would say the three most recognisable and respected seawatchers in the shelter + me were shouting all the Long-tails.

The first bird to go through was an easy close tailless adult, which i missed but which i think everyone in the whole shelter was happy with, the second was a distant juv. Initially i couldn't tell it from an Arctic, i then realised i had to throw everthing i knew about juv skuas out the window. These birds are so subtle you have got to look closely, REALLY closely at to pick out diagnostic features, the bird was slimmer in body and wing, with a more ternlike, bouyant flight than Arctic and this particular bird then turned swooped back, revealing barred utcs a thin black tail, it then stalled and skimmed the surface of the water (classic LTS behaviour). From this point onwards it was like a door was opened and we were able to tell the subtly different flight, slim build, thin tails, chestiness, barring on UTC, colder colouration (last two not always apparent because of distance) all birds 'stalling' at least once and quite few birds skimming over the water and picking food from the sarface of the water with their bill - i.e like Black Tern (which ive never seen an Arctic do) - all in all plumage, behaviour and j1zz all clearly different from the Arctics. Yet another contentious comment but i certainly found the more distant LTS easier than the less distant, i find there is a mid-distance range where all Skuas get really tricky.

Probably two defining moments was a LT next to Bonxie and looking not small in comparison but MINUTE. the best moment had to be me saying 'with all these close juv Arctics its about time we had a close juv LT', when as if on queue - boom one came past and we got EVERYTHING on it.

Now for the bit where i was dodgy, the LT's all came through in a relatively small short space of time and once they were through they were no stragglers, this was actually quite tricky, we were watching alot of Skuas, which rther than quickly looking like LT's, we had to pick apart and realised they were Arctics, during this time i called two LT's completely wrong they were flying directly in with an Arctic so all you could see were the outline of the wings, when they swung round they were clearly Arctics, was a bit gutted but i think its only natural and a good thing if you make mistakes on a seawatch - always room for improvement.

In terms of the lack of adults, i think this is entirely in keeping with the migration of LTS. Migrating birds in Autumn generally consist of juvs because (according to Olsen from Skuas and Jaegers) the more experienced adults migrate directly to the West and move into central Atlantic before moving South, thus dispensing with any pre-migration dispersal. i find him a bit unclear here, but i think what he is saying is that adults are more hardcore and can take on rougher conditions and but will be able to get to wintering grounds quicker, while juv will go down the North sea where the feeding is better.

To the person who keeps seeing small slim Arctics, yes there are skinny Arctics out there, i saw a dinky adult this morning, and there is size differential between the sexes, females guard the nest = bigger, males do the hunting = smaller, but next time you see a thin winged, slim Skua with a light flight look really close - its probably a LTS, they are regular of this coast but under-recorded.

In terms of LTS not being seen at other sites in particular (an remember this is only a debate) i know this is very contentious because of the calibre of the observers at places like Cley, but i feel LTS were being missed and called as Arctics, certainly the 89 Arctics at Cley seems about 19 more Arctics than we had at Sheringham : - ), it is mystifying especially as we had a close ad and juv which were easy! there has always been this Cley / Sheringham divide on LTS based on the observers who watch each individual site. there are usually more seen at Sheringham than Cley. I don't really want to be drawn any further on this though!

After all this droning on a guess you guys probably got your hands in sockets, but one further thing to reflect on is that in the 70's the Norfolk seawatchers of the time (one of which i was watching with yesterday) were constantly slagging off Flamborough Head for all the ridiculous, stringy massive totals of LTS's they were claiming, the Norfolk lot kept on seeing all these tiny Skuas going past but they put these down as the 'small race of Arctic Skua!

By the way, reakon its all going to happen again on friday : -)
 
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As a Sheringham seawatcher of several years standing now i am somewhat aggrieved (to say the least) by Hudwits accusative post. To begin with Josh was`nt the sole identifier of the birds, a certain KBS was one of the key players & anyone who knows him will pay testament to his observational skills.
As Hudwit knows skua id is tricky & there are many variations & few definitive plumage features between the two smaller species & jizz plays an important role in the id process, something that can only be learnt through experience. As to the notion of small juv Arctic Skuas being misidentified, well, they are still Arctic Skuas & as a rule plumper than adult birds, they dont suddenly take on the jizz of LTS, ie having a lighter more bouyant Tern like flight (in yesterdays winds)with slimmer wings & longer rear end. Several of the birds that were picked up at range & tentatively id`d as LTS`s were helpfully seen to stall over the sea & engage in dip feeding on their approach, a very pro id feature. I could add much more to this thread but feel that i dont have to justify mine or anybody elses observations to someone who has been lurking on Birdforum for nearly 2 years & uses his first post to slag off other observers. Perhaps he would care to tell us who he is & come up to Sheringham on the next good seawatch so we could all share in his experience. You know who i am & where i`ll be.
Rob.

yeah big up to rob lee, in all his raging glory, just to say i have not been in cahoot with Rob today over how our texts can sound so similar just pure con-incidence that we posted our repsonses at the same time :-O
(could it be we were seeing the same birds;))

On a totally different note, i know hes not a poster on this forum huge :t::t::t: to STEVE HOWELL for finding the Alpine Swift today, a salt of birder who seemingly has the midas touch - the jammy bar steward :-O
 
Went to Holme (6pm-7.45pm) after work tonight, but pretty naff really. Parked by 5-bar gate half way down the Firs Road and walked up to Gore Point. Lots of swallows gathering on the beach. 1 Adult Gannet going west, 3/4 distance, several oystercatchers, 3 grey plover, turnstones, sanderlings, redshanks on the shoreline. 1 juv. cormorant swimming in the creek, lots of magpies in the forestry. Walked down to the observatory where there were 2 mute swans, 2 little grebes, teal, coots and 1 heron on the broad water. Walking back along the Firs road in the dusk, 1 barn owl.

Best Wishes Penny:girl:

PS. Ilya - did you walk the 'point' this morning before work??????
 
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As a Sheringham seawatcher of several years standing now i am somewhat aggrieved (to say the least) Rob.

not sure you realise how close to the truth you are there, Rob

Hudwit, this is a democratic forum and i for one am not going to get into any accusations or badmouthing (even though we have had a rather topical run in in the past ;)

any of your comments welcome.
 
.....that it is a debate and if it remains maturely so then i reckon it will be pretty beneficial to everyone.

.....the bird was slimmer in body and wing, with a more ternlike, bouyant flight than Arctic and this particular bird then turned swooped back, revealing barred utcs a thin black tail, it then stalled and skimmed the surface of the water (classic LTS behaviour). From this point onwards it was like a door was opened and we were able to tell the subtly different flight, slim build, thin tails, chestiness, barring on UTC, colder colouration (last two not always apparent because of distance) all birds 'stalling' at least once and quite few birds skimming over the water and picking food from the sarface of the water with their bill - i.e like Black Tern (which ive never seen an Arctic do) - all in all plumage, behaviour and j1zz all clearly different from the Arctics. Yet another contentious comment but i certainly found the more distant LTS easier than the less distant, i find there is a mid-distance range where all Skuas get really tricky.

.....but i think its only natural and a good thing if you make mistakes on a seawatch - always room for improvement.

....but next time you see a thin winged, slim Skua with a light flight look really close - its probably a LTS, they are regular of this coast but under-recorded.

By the way, reakon its all going to happen again on friday : -)

Thanks Pomskua for the info, debate and honesty. I love sea-watching and do on occasion see these small slim winged skuas but they are always way out and I pass this look off to distance. Perhaps I don't scrutinise mid distance skuas enough as well......Maybe I am missing LTSs!|:S|

This excellent debate will manage to drag me away from my beloved Titchwell and the next decent blow (hopefully Friday?) will see me in the shelter for some education and LTSs!
 
High Ash farm

Returned to the site of venta icenorum this afternoon, originally set out to do a quick post check over the expanse of sheep fields for passing migrants etc but on arrival instead decided to explore the farmland on the otherside of the road on the Ash Farm estate. Was very impressed to see the amount of effort that has been put into managing the local farmland for the benefit of the sorrounding wildlife ~ fields have been sown with overwinter wild bird seed mixes, new hedgerows and woodlands have been planted and wetland habitats created as well as a series of well maintained permisive footpaths that cover much of the immediate area....this combined with the Tas Valley area around the Caister roman town site makes the area a very attractive proposition for any keen farmland birders like myself!!

Weather was a bit duff so only managed Little Owl, G/GS Woodpecker's, good numbers of Linnets and Yellowhamers etc. Looks like a great spot for finding wintering owls and other raptors, shrikes, redpoll, siskin etc!!

http://www.norwichfringeproject.co.uk/caister.pdf

Matt
 

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I was at Sheringham Sunday and agree with all thats just been said regarding skua ID and numbers seen. One thing did cross my mind when I briefly looked from the 'beach hotel' at Cley is the fact that you cannot actually see that far out, unlike Sheringham, maybe some of the LTS were to far out to be seen at Cley.
 
Titchwell

Few bits and bobs from Titchwell today. Not working today but spent the morning sea watching and checking Thornham Point - sad I know going there on my day off!!!

Osprey - 1 east over beach @ ca12:15
Arctic skua - 1 offshore
Shag - juv feeding just offshore from beach platform
Pintail - 19 on fresh marsh
Pink footed goose - 5 on fresh marsh
Mandarin - drake on fresh marsh
Wigeon - 8 on fresh marsh
Garganey - 1 on reedbed pool

Checked the paddocks and gardens along the Holme road but very quiet apart from 15 pinkies in/off onto the grazing meadows. Left the NOA obs at 14:40 and got home as my pager told me the news - stupid birds!!!!!

Paul
 
Couldn't make it to Holme this pm. Just wondered if it was thought the bird roosted and if so where?
(know how you feel Paul!)

PS Ashley PM me your e-mail address!!
 
Well it was still over the NOA bank at 7:45pm at least. Unfortunately a couple of Holme regulars (including myself) could not make it this evening due to prior arrangements, so heres hoping it is still present tommorow (a long shot - I have almost resorted to praying ;)) Certain BF members (;)) saw it this evening. Logic ditates that it was getting fairly dark by 7:45pm, so perhaps it has roosted on thr Firs house? Other possible locations could include the water tower and church, though hopefully those who were watching it late evening may post later and tell us more...

Cheers,

C
 
woke up with skuas going through my head and beginning to know how joan of arc felt ;) so thought a gentle waltz up the Point would be in order. Shame i could catch up with JM or the wardens but meant i had the place to myself.

There seemed to be a few birds present then a small fall while i was there, already there were 2 Spot Flys, 1 Redstart, about 6 Wheatear + a shearing Merlin then when the rain came 2 lesser whitethroat, garden warbler, whinchat, another 6 Wheatear and two Swifts, not spectacular but enjoyable nonetheless

highlights / freakouts on the way back was a very approachable dark Arctic Skua and then out of nowhere 3 male skinnydippers! Not something you want to see everyday 8-P
 
Mate - you need to get into a forest for some r + r , nowhere near the sea for 48 hours should sort you out. Glad you had a great seawatch, sounds mega and just reward. See you soon.
 
Well it was still over the NOA bank at 7:45pm at least. Unfortunately a couple of Holme regulars (including myself) could not make it this evening due to prior arrangements, so heres hoping it is still present tommorow (a long shot - I have almost resorted to praying ;)) Certain BF members (;)) saw it this evening. Logic ditates that it was getting fairly dark by 7:45pm, so perhaps it has roosted on thr Firs house? Other possible locations could include the water tower and church, though hopefully those who were watching it late evening may post later and tell us more...

Cheers,

C

It may also be worth checking the cliff tops at Hunstanton. Last years Alp at Titchwell was seen to roost near the lighthouse a couple of evenings in a row, but then again there were far more swifts around at that time. Just a thought.

cheers,
Ben
 
What a fantastic tick!!!!!!!:t:;):t:;):t:B :)

ALPINE SWIFT at Holme this evening, watched it from 5.45pm until 7.45pm and got some pictures too!!!! Will post some tomorrow evening.

It was really lovely watching this later on in the evening, knowing I was the only one watching it;);) Advantage of being an NOA member, dawn 'til dusk access!!! The swift was viewable the whole time I was watching it from half way along the NOA bank, I was sat in the little shelter/hide until the rain stopped and then stood and watched it until the sun set directly by the hide. Couldn't really see where it went after 7.45pm it was quite dark by then, all of the swifts seemed to have disappeared by then, so who knows where it has roosted, I reckon the NOA seawatching hide;)

Also watched 5 little egrets fly over east in the setting sun to roost at Titchwell and a kestrel landed in the pines.

Best Wishes Penny:girl:

P.S. Only just posted as finished work early today to go home for a Washing machine service man to see my w.machine to tell me that it is beyond repair and he was just leaving when a VERY nice person rang me to tell the swift was still showing, so threw my bins, scope/cameras and bag of washing in car. After watching swift I went to my mothers to borrow her washing machine, so only just home! I really should have gone to Curry's to buy new machine, but that can wait 'til tomorrow!
 

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Hi Paul

Thanks for the regular reports from Titchwell, much appreciated.

Just out of interest, are these lists taken verbatim from the visitor sightings book or from your own rounds?

As a fairly regular visitor (several times a year, for several years), i have seen some pretty wild mis-id's in that book. Just wondered if they had been sense checked in any way (i'm not casting any aspersions or anything, just interested to know, as these reports will be very useful).

Thanks

Mike
 
Found an interesting looking Barn Owl here today, a presumed migrant looking very tired sitting on a fence post close to the cliff. It looked quite similar to the 'Dark-breasted' Barn Owl at Ludham late 2007/early 2008. Also a few migrants around including 2 Wheatear and a single Redstart. The sea produced an Arctic Skua north and 2 Red-throated Divers on the water with another north. Looking forward to the rest of the month...

James

EDIT: Have added one of my pics of the bird, fixed eyepiece so 128x mag!
 

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:gh:
woke up with skuas going through my head and beginning to know how joan of arc felt ;) so thought a gentle waltz up the Point would be in order. Shame i could catch up with JM or the wardens but meant i had the place to myself.

JM's on Fair Isle for a while apparently, which I'm sure will vastly boost the amount of stuff found there, but gives the rest of us a fighting chance of finding something on the way up!
 

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