Need advice on upgrading from my existing spotting scope (4 Viewers)

[LeeMonela]

Good day everyone

Situation: I am considering upgrading my current spotting scope and looking for some advice please.
I am based in the U.K.

Background: I have a current generation Vortex Diamondback HD 16-48x65 angled scope.

My use of it is purely recreational and I use it for nature, birding, etc and a tiny bit of astronomy just as looking at Jupiter.

I don’t need to carry it on long walks so size and weight is not of a concern to me. I don’t wear glasses so eye relief probably not a problem.

What is important to me: Being able to get an image that is still good quality at max zoom - looking at ~ x60
I am going to be stretching the power of it, and don’t think x48 will do as I have maxed out my X48 Vortex scope and could do with more.

Actions: I have been doing some searching and the following models come to mind - and are with my budget. *When I say budget, some are on sale and would not otherwise be in my price range of ~ £1400 but would go up a little if it was really going to be worth doing.

Zeiss Gavia - £1325 - if it is still on the sale price when back in stock

Opticron MM4 77 GA VHD - £1048
I believe it was recently updated with improved features. But I notice it goes up to X54 and concerned it might fall a bit short for my needs

Vortex Razor HD 27-60x85 - £1450

Nikon Monarch 82ED + 20x60 eyepiece
£1528 on sale

Pre-owned Leica APO-TELEVID 77 with 20-60x zoom Leica eyepiece
Rated 8.5/10 for condition and includes stay on case but no other accessories
£899

Unfortunately there is nowhere around me where I can go and compare these models outside or even look through them outside which is disappointing and I can’t find a place that does rental options at all.

I know there will always be subjectiveness involved in making choices but based on what I have explained, can I have some advice please?

Ultimately the upgrade needs to be worth the money spent towards the process otherwise it’s a waste.

Thank you.

 

[Rotherbirder]

The Nikon and the Opticron would be the scopes that I would personally look at. The Leica was/is also a cracking scope but it is more than a little long in the tooth and it would very much depend on its condition for me now. If you can look at it first it would help. Some had problems with objective coatings. All these should give you a good image at up to 60x. The Vortex and Zeiss I wouldn't consider personally. The best thing is try to check them out 'in the flesh' and see which one suits you and your needs best.

Not much but may be of some help.

RB

 

[dwatsonbirder]

I agree with the choices outlined by RB.
If you shop around you may be able to find a Swaro ATS with the older 20-60x which is a solid performer, the 65mm can be found within budget e. g. LCE. It is a bit dull in comparison to a larger objective glass though. LCE also have what looks to be a pristine Zeiss Diascope, which if you already have astro eyepieces would be a great option as these fit (such as the Baader zoom).
Finally, Ffordes.com have a couple of Pentax scopes which are quite highly regarded, and are also compatible with astro eyepieces.

Right, back to packing moving boxes...

 

[Peregrine Took]

I agree with both above. The Opticron is a bargain in this section of the market - made in Japan and has a 30 year warranty (eyepiece 10 years, I think).

The only one I would definitely avoid is the Zeiss Gavia - it's not very good (I'm not anti-Zeiss, I have their Conquest bins).

You might also look at the Kowa TSN-773 or 883, but finding used ones is a waiting game.

If you really want to optimise astro viewing with a birding scope, Daniel's recommendations, above, are sound. But for the sake a few hundred £££s you could buy a budget astro scope... after all, you're not going to be carrying a daylight and nighttime scope at the same time.
.

 

[Alexis Powell]

Before you purchase anything, I would make sure to first compare your scope at your current 48x maximum magnification to another good quality scope at 60x. That difference in magnification is not very much from a practical standpoint for most birding applications, so you will want to be sure it is worth getting a scope that tops out at 60x. Some scopes offer accessory extenders or can fit astronomy eyepieces to allow for higher magnifications. If you think that you need a higher magnification (e.g. 100x), before you buy, it is also worth considering whether you regularly have the seeing conditions (stable enough air) to make such magnifications worthwhile in the field.

I rarely use magnifications over 30x for birding and rarely find the air stable enough to make magnifications over 50x very useful at the distances that I might use them for birding, but I regularly use magnifications of ~100x for getting the detailed views of turtle head patterns that I need for my research, typically viewed at relatively short distances (usually under 50 m) where the stability of the air is less of a concern.

--AP

 

[4John]

Unfortunately there is nowhere around me where I can go and compare these models outside or even look through them outside which is disappointing and I can’t find a place that does rental options at all.

LeeMonela

I agree with Alexis that you really need to compare the 48X you already have with the 60X that you think you want. However, I note "there is nowhere around me where I can go and compare these models outside or even look through them".

If you tell us whereabouts in the UK you are, we may be able to help you find somewhere.

Also, have you thought about going to a "field day" instead of a shop ? In Focus do them over a lot of the UK. Have a look at the list here and see if there are any close enough for you to be able to make a trip:

Field Sales Events :: In Focus

 

[LeeMonela]

Thank you everyone for your valuable input. This information has prompted me to ask some more question based on the original theme, but firstly:
1) I live in Berkshire
2) I will look out for field days, I see there is one in Oxford possibly so I will look into that, thank you.
3) I don’t have any Astro eye pieces at present. Having spotting scope that has good potential for a little astronomy is something I should maybe class as a bonus, but not primary objective.

Further questions:
I have seen quite a few Swarovski ATS in 65mm available, but don’t know the pros and and cons of buying one of these used for the equivalent price of some new scopes of other brands that are also much newer in design. In essence, aside from say warranty, how would one decide between something like a new Opticron MM4 77 vs a used ATS 65 that might still cost £200 more?

Also, where might a used Leica APO televid fall into my search category? Seen one used for just under £600 if price has not changed, and that includes an eyepiece. What might one class as a good price range for this model if used but in good condition?

Thank you again.

 

[KBHC73]

Hi, If you can find a Kowa 883 with 25-60x eyepiece then jump on it! I use one & i also use the 1.6x extender which is seriously good even at around 100x. I've had amazing imagesof the Moon taken with my phone attatched.

All the best

 

[LeeMonela]

The most td

I agree with the choices outlined by RB.
If you shop around you may be able to find a Swaro ATS with the older 20-60x which is a solid performer, the 65mm can be found within budget e. g. LCE. It is a bit dull in comparison to a larger objective glass though. LCE also have what looks to be a pristine Zeiss Diascope, which if you already have astro eyepieces would be a great option as these fit (such as the Baader zoom).
Finally, Ffordes.com have a couple of Pentax scopes which are quite highly regarded, and are also compatible with astro eyepieces.

Right, back to packing moving boxes...

Good day, thank you for the information.
I have seen quite a few Swarovski ATS in 65mm available, but don’t know the pros and and cons of buying one of these used for the equivalent price of some new scopes of other brands that are also much newer in design. In essence, aside from say warranty, how would one decide between something like a new Opticron MM4 77 vs a used ATS 65 that might still cost £200 more?

 

[Hermann]

Get a Monarch 82ED.

Hermann

 

[HasseBF]

I agree with Hermann, get the Nikon. It’s that good!

 

[4John]

The most td

Good day, thank you for the information.
I have seen quite a few Swarovski ATS in 65mm available, but don’t know the pros and and cons of buying one of these used for the equivalent price of some new scopes of other brands that are also much newer in design. In essence, aside from say warranty, how would one decide between something like a new Opticron MM4 77 vs a used ATS 65 that might still cost £200 more?

Lee,

A new Swarovski is more expensive than a new Opticron because Swarovski, and many on this forum will say, it's a better quality image. IMO you should therefore have no qualms in paying extra for a good used, but older Swarovski 65 to get the 20-60X maximum magnification you are looking for. In this case I would argue that the age difference is effectively irrelevant when comparing it with a new Opticron. The Opticron will not give you anything new that you will be missing out on by buying the Swarovski. What the Opticron will give you is a brighter image because it has a larger objective. The downside is that it will be a larger and heavier scope, and the image quality will not be as good. However, only you can decide if you prefer the extra brightness, whether the image quality is good enough, and whether you can live with the larger size and weight. However, I wouldn't do that without setting the Swarovski and the Opticron side-by-side with your 65mm Vortex to check you are getting the image quality at 60X you are looking for. TBH when I had a Swarovkski STS 80 with the 20-60 zoom, atmospheric condition were very rarely suitable for making use of 60X magnification. Many times I wound the zoom up to 60X only to have to wind it back down again to 40-50X to get a useable image. I would therefore underline Alexis' comments above.

In Focus also have a showroom in the "country" literally 5 minutes off the M25 at London Colney where you can take stuff outside and try it with no risk of being run over by a bus. Check out their website. If you can get to Oxford for a field day you may find it just as easy to head up the M4 and round the M25 if you time it right. They stock Opticron and Swarovski and will part-exchange if that works for you. If you do make the trip try to do it on a dull day, because a sunny day will make it harder to see the differences.

I keep banging on about In Focus so I guess I need to say I don't work for them, neither am I on commission . I am simply a satisfied customer who likes the way they do business, and I think it's important to signpost people on this forum to try before they buy opportunities because there comes a point where 5 minutes hands/eyes-on experience is worth more than another hundred of my words.