Latest IOC Diary Updates (28 Viewers)

[Xenospiza]

"Re-lump African Crimson-winged Finch Rhodopechys alienus with Asian Crimson-winged Finch Rhodopechys sanguineus. Insufficient vocal and genetic data available to support the original split despite modest morphological differences and widely allopatric ranges (Dickinson & Christidis 2014; WGAC 1103. Contra Shirihai & Svensson 2018)."

Can someone tell me where anything for alienus genetics was published? I cannot find anything in Genbank, but I am no expert.

 

[Jacana]

I don't think there's anything published on alienus.

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

I don't think there's anything published on alienus.

Kirwan & al., 2006, based only in morphology and voice and other stuff

 

[l_raty]

Kirwan & al., 2006

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/241702251

(But no genetic data, indeed. All the data in Genbank seem to be from captive birds -- so we can't even tell for sure which species they were.)

 

[Xenospiza]

Thanks, so a nonsense statement on genetic distance...

 

[l_raty]

Well, they're merely saying that the "genetic data available" are "insufficient" -- which I guess they are.
(Data allowing comparison of the two species do not seem to exist at all.)

Of course, the question might be -- do we really need "sufficient" genetic data to accept a split ? And what qualifies as "sufficient" ?
(As long as they keep Seebohm's Wheatear -- or whatever they call this now -- split, species status requires no genetic divergence, anyway.)

 

[Muppit17]

Well, they're merely saying that the "genetic data available" are "insufficient" -- which I guess they are.
(Data allowing comparison of the two species do not seem to exist at all.)

Of course, the question might be -- do we really need "sufficient" genetic data to accept a split ? And what qualifies as "sufficient" ?
(As long as they keep Seebohm's Wheatear -- or whatever they call this now -- split, no genetic divergence is needed for species, anyway.)

Or why change the 'status quo' with no information. I guess the issue is that for IOC it was split, whilst Clements it was not.

Not sure on the point re Atlas Wheatear

 

[l_raty]

Not sure on the point re Atlas Wheatear

Genetic data, admittedly mtDNA only, show that the distance between seebohmi and oenanthe is zero.
(This is not new data either -- this was known when they were split.)

 

[Xenospiza]

Well, they're merely saying that the "genetic data available" are "insufficient" -- which I guess they are.

OK, yes that will be the explanation. I think it is silly to call them "insufficient" when they are actually "non-existent".
If I would say in my job that I have done "insufficient labwork", people will expect I have at least done something!