Latest IOC Diary Updates (31 Viewers)

[Mysticete]

Once the major lists are harmonised, what will the procedure be for agreeing future splits or lumps? I assume if lots of NG species are being re-lumped more or less on the basis of guesswork as to which of the two versions of reality is correct then more research is going to be done in order to demonstrate one way or the other. Who gets to make the decision and how do the various lists avoid diverging from each other as a result?

Quite apart from the NG issues, a world list in which Green-winged Teal isn't a species but Scottish Crossbill is doesn't strike me as a particularly stable long-term solution.

I believe they intend on using a proposal system similar to NACC/SACC. Presumably what is happening on the regional level will inform the WGAC. They have also said they are going to be publishing the proposals online, including all of the proposals from the last few years concerned with harmonizing the list. No idea if this is going to be SACC style where once a website is created stuff goes online throughout the year, or if stuff will be thrown up once or twice a year.

 

[Mysticete]

Wow, guess it's time to snapshot IOC & stick w/ a frozen version for my own list.

Is there someone named Peters on the WGAC?

I am sure some of this will get undone again in time. Freezing the list means losing out on any new splits coming down the pipeline that haven't been researched.

I suppose you could go with Howard and Moore now that it has been promised to be updated more regularly, although that is more conservative so you would probably still lose stuff.

 

[l_raty]

Presumably what is happening on the regional level will inform the WGAC.

Hopefully not.
There will always, unavoidably, be strong regional biases in the way regional committees handle issues (incl. in how they choose which issues they will start handling), hence basing a global checklist exclusively on the output of regional committees would be a receipt for inconsistency.

 

[Ian Lewis]

Apologies for a lengthy post, but I thought I'd share the available WGAC stance, based on notes per each species in Avibase, dated July 7th, the latest version available. I admit some changes might have been made since. For instance, multiple SACC proposals have subsequently been passed, rejected or are pending that might revert WGAC decisions (marked *) in the list. However, I assume it's rather accurate, considering Denis LePage (Mr. Avibase) is involved in the project. In short, it seems IOC will lump a bunch of species rather than eBird/Clements split. Also, quite a few species today recognized by both eBird/Clements and IOC will disappear. Species only recognized by HBW/BLI and not part of the list are not included below. And of course, the human error might be involved.

Thanks to Gusap for posting the WGAC lump list

I spent this morning going though it and found I am going to loose 98 lifers and gain 11.

In some cases, without further research, I don't know which species the taxa mentioned are to be lumped with, so it may be that that I haven't seen the 'parent species' and so I might loose a few fewer than 98.

I take it the reason IOC hasn't posted and split/lumps yet for 15.1 is that they are waiting for the mega-lump of WGAC to be finalised before updating their website.

 

[Mysticete]

Hopefully not.
There will always, unavoidably, be strong regional biases in the way regional committees handle issues (incl. in how they choose which issues they will start handling), hence basing a global checklist exclusively on the output of regional committees would be a receipt for inconsistency.

Presumably this only really applies to to regions that have active checklist authorities (SACC and NACC). I'd imagine it would be a similar status quo for other areas of the world without active influential committees as it is today for IOC and Clements. Unless I am not understanding the complaint.

I do find it problematic that SACC has become a official subcommittee of the AviList that might be driving future decisions in South America. Especially if other regions lack an equivalent group.

 

[l_raty]

Presumably this only really applies to to regions that have active checklist authorities (SACC and NACC). I'd imagine it would be a similar status quo for other areas of the world without active influential committees as it is today for IOC and Clements. Unless I am not understanding the complaint.

I do find it problematic that SACC has become a official subcommittee of the AviList that might be driving future decisions in South America. Especially if other regions lack an equivalent group.

In an ideal world, I don't think that regional committees should be given any say in decisions affecting a global checklist.
(But then, I really don't think either that the entire WGAC/AviList thing, that we are witnessing now, is a good thing for avian taxonomy as a science...)

 

[Kirk Roth]

Yes, this is very sad, New Guinea has indeed taken a clobbering by the look of it, I will not be going along with it as this is so open to question. It looks as if nuclear genome stuff rules and field observations, morphology and vocals are sidelined, though accepted for many Indonesian splits.

Yes - there are lots of curiosities related to the strength of evidence on a lot of these. I'm disappointed to see many of the decisions that led me to adopt IOC in the first place are being undone.

I'll say its somewhat outrageous that the American Yellow/Mangrove Warbler split stays, but the Yellow-rumped Warbler gets lumped. As you point out, its not easy to explain using morphology, vocalization, or behavior (or fitness). Also, some owl lumps that seem to fly in the face of owl biology.

I'm curious what guiding rationale or philosophy WGAC is using for it species definition.... if any. Not trying to sound facetious, but I'm left wondering if there will be any list options that closely follow the Biological Species Concept anymore.

 

[Mysticete]

Yes - there are lots of curiosities related to the strength of evidence on a lot of these. I'm disappointed to see many of the decisions that led me to adopt IOC in the first place are being undone.

I'll say its somewhat outrageous that the American Yellow/Mangrove Warbler split stays, but the Yellow-rumped Warbler gets lumped. As you point out, its not easy to explain using morphology, vocalization, or behavior (or fitness). Also, some owl lumps that seem to fly in the face of owl biology.

I'm curious what guiding rationale or philosophy WGAC is using for it species definition.... if any. Not trying to sound facetious, but I'm left wondering if there will be any list options that closely follow the Biological Species Concept anymore.

Yeah I've always said the litmus test for me on whether I will use the AviList was how Yellow-rumped Warbler is treated. Studies show they behave as biological and evolutionary species, and the proposals fail because some people on the NACC believe that mate recognition is the end all and be all for BSC, and things that happen after young are born don't matter much.

The situation with the Mangrove vs Yellow is a lot more complicated and less well supported, so keeping it seems pretty arbitrary.

 

[pbjosh]

Hopefully not.
There will always, unavoidably, be strong regional biases in the way regional committees handle issues (incl. in how they choose which issues they will start handling), hence basing a global checklist exclusively on the output of regional committees would be a receipt for inconsistency.

Certainly seems to be the case seeing how many Asian and African splits were accepted. Even S America took big steps forward. Meanwhile NACC seems to hold a lot of sway and regressive taxonomy prevails in N America.

 

[pbjosh]

I'll say its somewhat outrageous that the American Yellow/Mangrove Warbler split stays, but the Yellow-rumped Warbler gets lumped.

I also was shocked by this. Goldman’s Warbler particularly not being recognized continues to demonstrate just how far from reality N American taxonomy at times feels. So much adherence to an arbitrary and many times senseless status quo, so little willingness to progress. I wonder a bit just what the point is of a panel of experts (which they certainly are) if they only want to be arbiters of which science is good enough (with extremely high standards, mostly) to contraindicate the arbitrary opinions of a handful of individuals from long ago 🤷🏻

 

[Kirk Roth]

Yes, this is very sad, New Guinea has indeed taken a clobbering by the look of it, I will not be going along with it as this is so open to question. It looks as if nuclear genome stuff rules and field observations, morphology and vocals are sidelined, though accepted for many Indonesian splits.

This is the warbler study I was looking for: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/evo.12260?msockid=098d92576d32636b073580166c9a62c4

Among the "Yellow-rumped Warblers," it is actually the nuclear DNA that separates them and the mitochondrial is where the introgression is. So even that is inconsistent. If Yellow-rumps are to be lumped, they may as well throw Blue/Golden-winged and Hermit/Townsend's Warblers together as well - all of those are similar (if I recall correctly) in both Mt introgression and major plumage differences, except with more evident hybridization and less selection pressure due to migratory routes. I can't find it, but I believe there is even a study somewhere that shows that Myrtle and Audubon's Warblers differ in their capacity to digest waxy berries. How is all of this less biologically and taxonomically important than the difference between a Northern and Tropical Parula?

Its one thing to snicker at the tedious procedural issues which keep the AOS-NACC slow to change anything. I think it is entirely different to watch the WGAC put forth a seemingly hodgepodge taxonomy. I really hope I'm wrong and that some cohesive rationale is given for some of these decisions - but right now I just don't see where that possibility could lie.

I'm not even going to start on ducks.

 

[gusasp]

I also was shocked by this. Goldman’s Warbler particularly not being recognized continues to demonstrate just how far from reality N American taxonomy at times feels. So much adherence to an arbitrary and many times senseless status quo, so little willingness to progress. I wonder a bit just what the point is of a panel of experts (which they certainly are) if they only want to be arbiters of which science is good enough (with extremely high standards, mostly) to contraindicate the arbitrary opinions of a handful of individuals from long ago 🤷🏻

Hold your horses, fellas, the final list isn't out yet!

 

[Larry Sweetland]

Thanks to Gusap for posting the WGAC lump list

I spent this morning going though it and found I am going to loose 98 lifers and gain 11.

In some cases, without further research, I don't know which species the taxa mentioned are to be lumped with, so it may be that that I haven't seen the 'parent species' and so I might loose a few fewer than 98.

I take it the reason IOC hasn't posted and split/lumps yet for 15.1 is that they are waiting for the mega-lump of WGAC to be finalised before updating their website.

I couldn't resist going through them too, so again thanks to Gusap for posting this list👍.

Laughably enough, with regards to my rollercoaster ride of trying to see half the world's birds, if all those changes go through, the devastation has worked in my favour, but losing more than 30 species feels like a rubbish way to get back over the half way mark (for the third time! 😆)

It certainly feels more than ever that it's reached the point where everyone might as well just have their own taxonomy, as no one seems to be able to agree anyway 🤷

 

[Ian Lewis]

IOC 15.1 update 12/11/2024

Re-lump prematurely split Northern Mouse-colored Tyrannulet with (Southern) Mouse-colored Tyrannulet.

 

[Jacana]

It begins!

 

[Xenospiza]

IOC 15.1 update 12/11/2024

Re-lump prematurely split Northern Mouse-colored Tyrannulet with (Southern) Mouse-colored Tyrannulet.

1000 to go.

 

[Jim Mountjoy]

It begins!

But they don't say what happens to the Cocos Tyrannulet, which was supposed to be embedded in this group.

 

[TomDerutter]

It's not a relump of the whole group, just Northern & Southern Mouse-colored Tyrannulet (sensu IOC 14.2)

(I was in Suriname last year where it's entirely unclear which form occurs where... this lump makes sence to me)

 

[awiner]

It's not a relump of the whole group, just Northern & Southern Mouse-colored Tyrannulet (sensu IOC 14.2)

(I was in Suriname last year where it's entirely unclear which form occurs where... this lump makes sence to me)

Yep, and Marañon and Tumbesian also remain split.

 

[Jim LeNomenclatoriste]

It's not a relump of the whole group, just Northern & Southern Mouse-colored Tyrannulet (sensu IOC 14.2)

Nesotriccus incomtus corresponds to the Guyana/E Brazil clade in Zucker & al. (2016) ?