Latest IOC Diary Updates (16 Viewers)

[Paul Clapham]

Well I’d be interested to see those lists…

 

[Paul Clapham]

I sent you a "conversation", don't know if you get notified or what.

 

[Xenospiza]

I tried to have a look at the Avibase checklist but got completely confused by that webpage. How do I get a world list? Is there a way to compare different taxonomies.

However all of these questions pale compared to the main question I got while browsing the site, which I would succinctly put as

WHAT?!

View attachment 1611327

Czechia + Slovakia combining into former Czechoslovakia makes sense, but where did they get Hungary from?

 

[kweetal]

I tried to have a look at the Avibase checklist but got completely confused by that webpage. How do I get a world list?

Me too. I don't think it's possible to get a downloadable worldlist.

 

[Jeff Hopkins]

Czechia + Slovakia combining into former Czechoslovakia makes sense, but where did they get Hungary from?

Well if you go back far enough Hungary was a lot bigger .

 

[Xenospiza]

Well if you go back far enough Hungary was a lot bigger .

I thought of that, but unlike Slovakia Czechia was never part of the Kingdom of Hungary.

Austria-Hungary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[jts1882]

Czechia + Slovakia combining into former Czechoslovakia makes sense, but where did they get Hungary from?

Hungary is just next in the list. If you expand the Czechoslovakia blue row you only get the locations for Czechia and Slovakia. Similarly, expand the Baltics and you get the regions for Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, although Belarus and Poland are also listed before the Czechoslovakia blue row. The blue rows represent supra-country regions and are not headers for all the countries listed below and below the next blue row.

 

[jts1882]

I tried to have a look at the Avibase checklist but got completely confused by that webpage. How do I get a world list?

I don't think you can get complete world lists. This must be deliberate and might be a way of avoiding copyright issues.

Is there a way to compare different taxonomies.

You can, however, compare different taxonomies, e.g. IOC 14.2 version Clements 2023.

https://avibase.bsc-eoc.org/compare.jsp?source1=ioc&version1=IOC14_02&source2=clements&version2=CLEMENTS2023&continent=&reg_type=3

The WGAC list is not (yet?) available for these comparisons.

 

[Bismarck Honeyeater]

Plenty of variants of the complete world list here:

Master Lists – IOC World Bird List

 

[Kirk Roth]

Red Grouse yes, the Yellow-rumped Warbler is lumped in the latesst WGAC version from July.

What is the rationale for lumping the warblers?

 

[njlarsen]

What is the rationale for lumping the warblers?

I do not believe any rationale have been released from WGAC on any decisions yet. Until it will be, I assume you can get a hint by re-reading the discussions in NACC?
Niels

 

[gusasp]

What is the rationale for lumping the warblers?

As @njlarsen writes, no rationales have been published. I only noted the WGAC position as of July in Avibase.

 

[gusasp]

Apologies for a lengthy post, but I thought I'd share the available WGAC stance, based on notes per each species in Avibase, dated July 7th, the latest version available. I admit some changes might have been made since. For instance, multiple SACC proposals have subsequently been passed, rejected or are pending that might revert WGAC decisions (marked *) in the list. However, I assume it's rather accurate, considering Denis LePage (Mr. Avibase) is involved in the project. In short, it seems IOC will lump a bunch of species rather than eBird/Clements split. Also, quite a few species today recognized by both eBird/Clements and IOC will disappear. Species only recognized by HBW/BLI and not part of the list are not included below. And of course, the human error might be involved.

LUMPS
IOC ONLY (recognized today by IOC, but not HBW/BLI nor eBird/Clements, lumped in Avilist)
Xenoperdix obscuratus
Arborophila diversa
Pampa pampa
Tachybaptus tricolor
Phalacrocorax lucidus
Leucocarbo stewarti
Egretta dimorpha
Himantopus melanurus
Thalasseus acuflavidus
Accipiter chionogaster
Accipiter ventralis
Accipiter erythronemius
Buteo bannermani
Otus madagascariensis
Upupa africana
Phoeniculus granti
Todiramphus gertrudae
Nystalus striatipectus
Pteroglossus mariae
Melanerpes santacruzi
Elaenia chilensis
Zimmerius minimus
Zimmerius flavidifrons
Pyrocephalus obscurus
Melanopareia bitorquata
Amblyornis germanus
Sericornis virgatus
Philemon novaeguineae
Philemon yorki
Psophodes leucogaster
Vireo approximans
Pachycephala fuliginosus
Pachycephala johni
Manucodia alter
Terpsiphone smithii
Cyanocorax luxuosus
Corvus culminatus
Corvus levaillantii
Certhilauda benguelensis
Certhilauda brevirostris
Alaudala athensis
Galerida macrorhyncha
Nesillas longicaudata
Camaroptera brevicaudata
Prinia melanops
Scepomycter rubehoensis
Phyllastrephus placidus
Phyllastrephus alfredi
Arizelocichla kakamegae
Pycnonotus dodsoni
Pycnonotus somaliensis
Pycnonotus tricolor
Aegithalos sharpei
Phylloscopus floresianus
Pellorneum saturatum
Pellorneum poliogene
Pellorneum macropterum
Gracula enganensis
Lamprotornis elisabeth
Muscicapa tyrrhenica
Saxicola sibilla
Thamnolaea coronata
Myrmecocichla collaris
Oenanthe halophila
Oenanthe warriae
Pachyglossa aeruginosa
Cinnyris whytei
Cinnyris hofmanni
Erythrura regia
Chloris kittlitzi
Setophaga goldmani
Piranga lutea
Ramphocelus icteronotus

IOC+HBW/BLI ONLY (recognized today by IOC and HBW/BLI not eBird/Clements, lumped in Avilist)
Anas carolinensis
Apus sladeniae
Lampornis cinereicauda
Ramosomyia wagneri
Centropus spilopterus
Treron permagnus
Thalassarche impavida
Aerospiza toussenelii
Milvus aegyptius
Tyto multipunctata
Glaucidium californicum
Glaucidium hoskinsii
Glaucidium cobanense
Otus feae
Trachyphonus usambiro
Aulacorhynchus wagleri
Aulacorhynchus caeruleogularis
Aulacorhynchus atrogularis
Pteroglossus sanguineus
Ramphastos citreolaemus
Campethera cailliautii
Colaptes aeruginosus
Picus dedemi
*Myiopsitta luchsi
Psittacara rubritorquis
Phibalura boliviana
Pachyramphus xanthogenys
Myrmotherula luctuosa
Batis reichenowi
Rhipidura kordensis
Melaniparus pallidiventris
Apalis flavocincta
Aegithalos bonvaloti
Zosterops chrysolaemus
Zosterops crookshanki
Aplonis circumscripta
Taeniopygia castanotis
Rhodopechys alienus
Carpodacus lepidus
Passerella unalaschensis
Passerella schistacea
Passerella megarhyncha
Atlapetes meridae
Geothlypis chiriquensis
Setophaga auduboni
Myiothlypis roraimae
Piranga hepatica
*Dacnis egregia
Kleinothraupis auricularis

CLE ONLY (recognized today by eBird/clements, not by IOC nor HBW/BLI, lumped in Avilist)
Tyto almae

IOC+CLE (recognized today by IOC and eBird/clements, not by HBW/BLI, lumped in Avilist)
Leucocarbo georgianus
Leucocarbo melanogenis
Leucocarbo bransfieldensis
Leucocarbo verrucosus
Leucocarbo nivalis
Leucocarbo purpurascens
Tyto sororcula
Tyto manusi
Ailuroedus melanocephalus
Ailuroedus astigmaticus
Ailuroedus arfakianus
Ailuroedus jobiensis
Colluricincla tappenbecki
Colluricincla rufogaster
Colluricincla discolor
Colluricincla obscura
Colluricincla affinis
Laniarius willardi

SPLITS
IOC ONLY (recognized today by IOC, but not HBW/BLI nor eBird/Clements, split in Avilist)
Lagopus scotica
Butorides sundevalli (and B. atrocapilla!)
Numenius hudsonicus
Silvicultrix spodionota
Pachycephala melanorhyncha
Turdus daguae
Setophaga petechia

IOC+HBW/BLI ONLY (recognized today by IOC and HBW/BLI not eBird/Clements, split in Avilist)
Leptotila battyi
Pterodroma deserta
Pteroglossus erythropygius
*Campephilus splendens
*Pionus seniloides
Pyrrhura emma
Asthenes arequipae
Asthenes huancavelicae
Atlapetes nigrifrons
Cacicus microrhynchus
Molothrus armenti
Dubusia stictocephala
Dubusia carrikeri
*Xenodacnis petersi
*Sphenopsis piurae
*Sphenopsis ochracea

CLE+HBW/BLI ONLY (recognized today by eBird/Clements and HBW/BLI, not IOC, split in Avilist)
Amazona lilacina
*Thamnophilus shumbae
Sakesphorus pulchellus
Myzomela nigriventris
Zoothera atrigena
Stiphrornis xanthogaster
Stiphrornis pyrrholaemus

HBW/BLI ONLY (recognized today by HBW/BLI, not IOC nor eBird/Clements, split in Avilist)
*Piaya mexicana
Gygis candida
Gygis microrhyncha
Pyrrhura subandina
Tunchiornis rubrifrons
Tunchiornis luteifrons
Turdus ardosiaceus
*Arremon axillaris
Melozone occipitalis
*Granatellus paraensis

CLE ONLY (recognized today by eBird/Clements, not IOC nor HBW/BLI, split in Avilist)
Aethopyga tibolii

 

[sicklebill]

As feared, one list to rule them all means LOTS of lumps, sad to see the cormorants, catbirds, friarbirds, shrikethrushes etc merged again, surprised they haven't merged Island Thrush again......List Independence beckons unless IOC maintains an identity.

 

[Jeff Hopkins]

I thought of that, but unlike Slovakia Czechia was never part of the Kingdom of Hungary.

Austria-Hungary - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yeah, I didn't mean it seriously.

FWIW, my mom's family came in part from the region of Hungary that is now Slovakia and Ukraine. The other part of her family came from Transylvania.

 

[Mysticete]

Apologies for a lengthy post, but I thought I'd share the available WGAC stance, based on notes per each species in Avibase, dated July 7th, the latest version available. I admit some changes might have been made since. For instance, multiple SACC proposals have subsequently been passed, rejected or are pending that might revert WGAC decisions (marked *) in the list. However, I assume it's rather accurate, considering Denis LePage (Mr. Avibase) is involved in the project. In short, it seems IOC will lump a bunch of species rather than eBird/Clements split. Also, quite a few species today recognized by both eBird/Clements and IOC will disappear. Species only recognized by HBW/BLI and not part of the list are not included below. And of course, the human error might be involved.

LUMPS
IOC ONLY (recognized today by IOC, but not HBW/BLI nor eBird/Clements, lumped in Avilist)
Xenoperdix obscuratus
Arborophila diversa
Pampa pampa
Tachybaptus tricolor
Phalacrocorax lucidus
Leucocarbo stewarti
Egretta dimorpha
Himantopus melanurus
Thalasseus acuflavidus
Accipiter chionogaster
Accipiter ventralis
Accipiter erythronemius
Buteo bannermani
Otus madagascariensis
Upupa africana
Phoeniculus granti
Todiramphus gertrudae
Nystalus striatipectus
Pteroglossus mariae
Melanerpes santacruzi
Elaenia chilensis
Zimmerius minimus
Zimmerius flavidifrons
Pyrocephalus obscurus
Melanopareia bitorquata
Amblyornis germanus
Sericornis virgatus
Philemon novaeguineae
Philemon yorki
Psophodes leucogaster
Vireo approximans
Pachycephala fuliginosus
Pachycephala johni
Manucodia alter
Terpsiphone smithii
Cyanocorax luxuosus
Corvus culminatus
Corvus levaillantii
Certhilauda benguelensis
Certhilauda brevirostris
Alaudala athensis
Galerida macrorhyncha
Nesillas longicaudata
Camaroptera brevicaudata
Prinia melanops
Scepomycter rubehoensis
Phyllastrephus placidus
Phyllastrephus alfredi
Arizelocichla kakamegae
Pycnonotus dodsoni
Pycnonotus somaliensis
Pycnonotus tricolor
Aegithalos sharpei
Phylloscopus floresianus
Pellorneum saturatum
Pellorneum poliogene
Pellorneum macropterum
Gracula enganensis
Lamprotornis elisabeth
Muscicapa tyrrhenica
Saxicola sibilla
Thamnolaea coronata
Myrmecocichla collaris
Oenanthe halophila
Oenanthe warriae
Pachyglossa aeruginosa
Cinnyris whytei
Cinnyris hofmanni
Erythrura regia
Chloris kittlitzi
Setophaga goldmani
Piranga lutea
Ramphocelus icteronotus

IOC+HBW/BLI ONLY (recognized today by IOC and HBW/BLI not eBird/Clements, lumped in Avilist)
Anas carolinensis
Apus sladeniae
Lampornis cinereicauda
Ramosomyia wagneri
Centropus spilopterus
Treron permagnus
Thalassarche impavida
Aerospiza toussenelii
Milvus aegyptius
Tyto multipunctata
Glaucidium californicum
Glaucidium hoskinsii
Glaucidium cobanense
Otus feae
Trachyphonus usambiro
Aulacorhynchus wagleri
Aulacorhynchus caeruleogularis
Aulacorhynchus atrogularis
Pteroglossus sanguineus
Ramphastos citreolaemus
Campethera cailliautii
Colaptes aeruginosus
Picus dedemi
*Myiopsitta luchsi
Psittacara rubritorquis
Phibalura boliviana
Pachyramphus xanthogenys
Myrmotherula luctuosa
Batis reichenowi
Rhipidura kordensis
Melaniparus pallidiventris
Apalis flavocincta
Aegithalos bonvaloti
Zosterops chrysolaemus
Zosterops crookshanki
Aplonis circumscripta
Taeniopygia castanotis
Rhodopechys alienus
Carpodacus lepidus
Passerella unalaschensis
Passerella schistacea
Passerella megarhyncha
Atlapetes meridae
Geothlypis chiriquensis
Setophaga auduboni
Myiothlypis roraimae
Piranga hepatica
*Dacnis egregia
Kleinothraupis auricularis

CLE ONLY (recognized today by eBird/clements, not by IOC nor HBW/BLI, lumped in Avilist)
Tyto almae

IOC+CLE (recognized today by IOC and eBird/clements, not by HBW/BLI, lumped in Avilist)
Leucocarbo georgianus
Leucocarbo melanogenis
Leucocarbo bransfieldensis
Leucocarbo verrucosus
Leucocarbo nivalis
Leucocarbo purpurascens
Tyto sororcula
Tyto manusi
Ailuroedus melanocephalus
Ailuroedus astigmaticus
Ailuroedus arfakianus
Ailuroedus jobiensis
Colluricincla tappenbecki
Colluricincla rufogaster
Colluricincla discolor
Colluricincla obscura
Colluricincla affinis
Laniarius willardi

SPLITS
IOC ONLY (recognized today by IOC, but not HBW/BLI nor eBird/Clements, split in Avilist)
Lagopus scotica
Butorides sundevalli (and B. atrocapilla!)
Numenius hudsonicus
Silvicultrix spodionota
Pachycephala melanorhyncha
Turdus daguae
Setophaga petechia

IOC+HBW/BLI ONLY (recognized today by IOC and HBW/BLI not eBird/Clements, split in Avilist)
Leptotila battyi
Pterodroma deserta
Pteroglossus erythropygius
*Campephilus splendens
*Pionus seniloides
Pyrrhura emma
Asthenes arequipae
Asthenes huancavelicae
Atlapetes nigrifrons
Cacicus microrhynchus
Molothrus armenti
Dubusia stictocephala
Dubusia carrikeri
*Xenodacnis petersi
*Sphenopsis piurae
*Sphenopsis ochracea

CLE+HBW/BLI ONLY (recognized today by eBird/Clements and HBW/BLI, not IOC, split in Avilist)
Amazona lilacina
*Thamnophilus shumbae
Sakesphorus pulchellus
Myzomela nigriventris
Zoothera atrigena
Stiphrornis xanthogaster
Stiphrornis pyrrholaemus

HBW/BLI ONLY (recognized today by HBW/BLI, not IOC nor eBird/Clements, split in Avilist)
*Piaya mexicana
Gygis candida
Gygis microrhyncha
Pyrrhura subandina
Tunchiornis rubrifrons
Tunchiornis luteifrons
Turdus ardosiaceus
*Arremon axillaris
Melozone occipitalis
*Granatellus paraensis

CLE ONLY (recognized today by eBird/Clements, not IOC nor HBW/BLI, split in Avilist)
Aethopyga tibolii

FYI Gygis should also have a * by it, as its being considered by SACC right now

Revise species limits in the Schiffornis turdina complex

A lot of those kind of make sense (some of the Tyto lumps, African Hoopoe, etc), although to me some of the continued recognized splits are as surprising as some of the lumps..I wouldn't have expected Hudsonian Curlew to survive.

It will be interesting to see if at the end of the day there if there is any meaningful difference between regional and WGAC lists. I've supported AviList in part because it initially seemed like they may be a fully independent body, but if they just become a NACC or SACC rubber stamp for birds in those areas I will be significantly less interested

As feared, one list to rule them all means LOTS of lumps, sad to see the cormorants, catbirds, friarbirds, shrikethrushes etc merged again, surprised they haven't merged Island Thrush again......List Independence beckons unless IOC maintains an identity.

I am kind of surprised New Guinea and surroundings were so badly hit...I kind of figured a lot of those groups are poorly studied, but is there strong evidence behind relumping them, especially when a lot of Indonesian/Philippines splits feel like they have been accepted based on comparable amounts of data. But my knowledge of that region of the world as far as the literature goes isn't as good as in other parts.

 

[Snapdragyn]

Wow, guess it's time to snapshot IOC & stick w/ a frozen version for my own list.

Is there someone named Peters on the WGAC?

 

[Swindon Addick]

Once the major lists are harmonised, what will the procedure be for agreeing future splits or lumps? I assume if lots of NG species are being re-lumped more or less on the basis of guesswork as to which of the two versions of reality is correct then more research is going to be done in order to demonstrate one way or the other. Who gets to make the decision and how do the various lists avoid diverging from each other as a result?

Quite apart from the NG issues, a world list in which Green-winged Teal isn't a species but Scottish Crossbill is doesn't strike me as a particularly stable long-term solution.

 

[HH75]

Venezuelan Parrot is the one I missed, although it looks like there's a fundamental disagreement where it belongs.

I would have thought Venezuela...?

 

[sicklebill]

Wow, guess it's time to snapshot IOC & stick w/ a frozen version for my own list.

Is there someone named Peters on the WGAC?

Yes, this is very sad, New Guinea has indeed taken a clobbering by the look of it, I will not be going along with it as this is so open to question. It looks as if nuclear genome stuff rules and field observations, morphology and vocals are sidelined, though accepted for many Indonesian splits.