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how do you pronounce "chough"? (3 Viewers)

When i read names out of books without hearing them i thought Cetti's sounded like the sofa - settee's warbler and that Cirl Bunting was Curl Bunting but now i know its surl :)
 
I had understood that 'chough' was believed to have originally been pronounced 'chow' (to rhyme with 'cow' - thing that goes moo), as this is like their call (same as a crow goes 'caw', at least in English). But once it was written down (the history of the -ough spelling in English is a real detective story) the pronunciation changed to match one of the other ways of saying '-ough' i.e. like bough (thing on a tree). This was probably because the people who saw it written, then tried to say it, had never actually seen or heard a chough.

Unusual facts; the chough is the emblem of St. Edmund's Hall, Oxford (linked to St Edmund and Cornwall), and there is a book of poetry called Chatter of Choughs, celebrating the chough, published by a Fellow of the College.
 
O.K. - How do you pronounce Sabine's?

Saa-bine's or Say-bines. The BBC have used both.

The last time I asked this question, I was told Kittiwake!

Regards

Ken.
 
Thanks, i now know how to say it..... Gerrrrrrrrr.
Not that i'm going to ever see one, so i suppose it doesn't really matter how i'd say it anyhoo!

:)
 
Hi Joanne,

Not a great reader myself these days -always too much else to do it seems. I picked the signature because I liked it and it seemed appropriate for a bird forum!

All the best

Ken.
 
kmonty1950 said:
Hi Joanne,

Not a great reader myself these days -always too much else to do it seems. I picked the signature because I liked it and it seemed appropriate for a bird forum!

All the best

Ken.
Click to expand...

I know exactly what you mean. Is it from 'Songs of Innocence?
 
Joanne,

It's from "Proverbs of Hell"

Paul,

Always said oo-sul myself, but there may be a bit of "Devonshire" pronunciation in there.

All the best

Ken.
 
Ousel rhymes with schmoozle
Sabines is 'Say' to rhyme with gay and 'Bines' to rhyme with dines, I believe, since it's named after an Irish chap who is believed to have pronounced his name that way.

Gyr seems to be a matter of taste and I've rarely heard it pronounced as the OED prscribes. For me, Gyr rhymes with a short cheer.

But is the warbler Ick-te-reen or Ick-te-rhine?

Graham
 
Quercus said:
Hear, hear, it's "Chow"!... but what do they know?

Surely it's onomatopoeic

(i just wanted to write onomatopoeic..... there, done it twice now!)
Click to expand...

I also reckon that the English name for the bird was probably onomatopoeic, but as choughs disappeared from most of England (eg. in the 18th and 19th centuries) people no longer knew what the birds' calls were like and the pronunciation of the word 'chough' altered to that used now.

Incidentally, I once heard from a Cornish man that old people in that country referred to the species as 'chaw' which is a bit like the call, but coincidentally also rhymes with 'daw.'

The call of the chough is actually disyllabic, and that is reflected in the Manx Gaelic name 'caaig' and, I believe, also the names used in Irish and Scottish Gaelic, the other 2 Gaelic languages.

Allen
 
Allen S. Moore said:
I also reckon that the English name for the bird was probably onomatopoeic, but as choughs disappeared from most of England (eg. in the 18th and 19th centuries) people no longer knew what the birds' calls were like and the pronunciation of the word 'chough' altered to that used now.

Incidentally, I once heard from a Cornish man that old people in that country referred to the species as 'chaw' which is a bit like the call, but coincidentally also rhymes with 'daw.'

The call of the chough is actually disyllabic, and that is reflected in the Manx Gaelic name 'caaig' and, I believe, also the names used in Irish and Scottish Gaelic, the other 2 Gaelic languages.

Allen
Click to expand...

Hi Allen,
The names of Birds in Irish are on this site below. Have a look towards the end of the Chough list for some examples of the types of names you describe. Will post on pronounciation of them when I have time if you're interested.

http://indigo.ie/~cocaomh/English-Irish Dictionary.htm

P.S. There are so many versions because Irish has a few fairly distinct regional forms today and many years ago there were many more. The only Scots Gaidhlig name I could find translates as Red-legged Crow but doubtless there are similar names imitative of the call out there.
 
Last edited:
bitterntwisted said:
Ousel rhymes with schmoozle
Sabines is 'Say' to rhyme with gay and 'Bines' to rhyme with dines, I believe, since it's named after an Irish chap who is believed to have pronounced his name that way.
Click to expand...

I thought it was a short 'a', as in 'hat', and to rhyme with 'ha', as in ha-ha-ha? Probably largely a matter of choice. As 'Chough' shows, it's not necessarily the original that is now correct, but the accepted and most commonly used, and they haven't necessarily ever heard of Mr Sabine of Ireland. And it isn't necessarily rigidly set. After all, who's to decide? And why would they be an authority? It's like trying to contain English itself, you can't, It evolves.

bitterntwisted said:
But is the warbler Ick-te-reen or Ick-te-rhine?

Graham
Click to expand...

Ik-ter-een, I think. Again, it depends a lot on accent and your native dialect.
 
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