how do you pronounce "chough"? (2 Viewers)

[Larry Lade]

I said Say-bins until I went out on a pelagic off the coast of Washington state. Then
the, apparently knowledgeable, tour leader pronounced it Sa-bins. So, there you go.

 

[Larry Lade]

I have heard the Pileated Woodpecker name pronounced both ways, pill-lee-ate-ed and pie-lee-ate-ed. I suppose it might be more properly be pronounced as the latter.

From internet online dictionary (deriving from the bird's crest):

pi·le·um
n. pl. pi·le·a The top of a bird's head, extending from the base of the bill to the nape

 

[Farnboro John]

Oh, they know that they have names, alright ... just not the ones we give them. They give each other names like "George", "Sally" and "Penelope Phalarope".

Nonsense, George was a Glaucous Gull. But Mad George was a Capercaillie....thinks..... is that "capper" or "cayper"....?

....and any duck lover knows penelope is a Wigeon, you just have to know your Anas from your elbow!

John

 

[bitterntwisted]

...it's not necessarily the original that is now correct, but the accepted and most commonly used, and they haven't necessarily ever heard of Mr Sabine of Ireland. And it isn't necessarily rigidly set. After all, who's to decide? And why would they be an authority? It's like trying to contain English itself, you can't, It evolves.

Agreed. And Sabine's Wikipedia entry doesn't enlighten how he would have wished it... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Sabine. An old post here, http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=469209&postcount=5, says it rhymes with satin, although I have seen others saying it rhymed with saline as I thought.

Along the same line I always assumed that Vaux's Swift was "Voes", but following the way the chap pronounced it makes it "Voxes", apparently.

Interesting commentaries on prounounciation here:
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/crows/birdname.htm
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/pronounce.htm

Graham

 

[Capercaillie71]

Mad George was a Capercaillie....thinks..... is that "capper" or "cayper"....?

Capper, although many English people (including my dad) seem to prefer Cayper.

Going back to the earlier discussion about Poecile, I think the scientific names are far more of a minefield than most of the English names. The main problems being which syllable to stress in multi-syllabic names and whether 'c's are hard or soft.

 

[Capercaillie71]

Interesting commentaries on prounounciation here:
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/crows/birdname.htm
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/pronounce.htm

Interesting that they come to completely different conclusions about Gyrfalcon. The first one goes for Jurr-falcon and the second for the bizarre Ghear-falcon, which I've never heard. My preference has always been Jurr-falcon, although I've also heard Jire-falcon and Gire-falcon

 

[bitterntwisted]

Capper, although many English people (including my dad) seem to prefer Cayper.

Going back to the earlier discussion about Poecile, I think the scientific names are far more of a minefield than most of the English names. The main problems being which syllable to stress in multi-syllabic names and whether 'c's are hard or soft.

According to the standards here, http://www.saltspring.com/capewest/pron.htm, it would be PESS-ile, to rhyme with sessile.

This standard biological usage seems to comply with the "English Method" here, http://www.ai.uga.edu/mc/latinpro.pdf, but that is one of four standards and garbled mixes of the four are common. I was taught the reconstructed Latin method and hence find it really difficult now to switch consistently to the English method. For example, "Veni, vidi, vici" was spoken as "wayney, weedy, weeky" which just doesn't sound as triumphant, and poecile would be pe-KIL-ay.

 

[JWN Andrewes]

Many years back there was a short-lived movement to start pronouncing Chiffchaff as "Paddyfileld Warbler"....

James

 

[Capercaillie71]

This standard biological usage seems to comply with the "English Method" here, http://www.ai.uga.edu/mc/latinpro.pdf, but that is one of four standards and garbled mixes of the four are common.

Great link, thanks!

"Fortunately, all four systems agree as to the accented (stressed) syllable. It is always the second or third from last. Specifically, if you number the syllables from the end of the word, the accented syllable is 2 if it contains a long vowel or diphthong, or ends in a consonant, and is otherwise 3."

That's the single most useful thing I've learnt all week! Although I should have known already as my mother is a retired classics teacher!

 

[KnockerNorton]

Capper, although many English people (including my dad) seem to prefer Cayper.

Depends on whether you deconstruct the word as caper-caillie or cap-er-caillie. Caper already exists as a word, so it's not surprising that some people use that. It also probably partly depends on whether you're northern or southern and are used to using a long 'a' or not.

Poecile seems to have no consensus, so i might change my handle to Coccothraustes. More straightforward, but it does sound like someone clearing their throat.

 

[Capercaillie71]

Poecile seems to have no consensus, so i might change my handle to Coccothraustes.

Having read Bitterntwisted's excellent Latin pronounciation link, I think I'll go for POI-sill-ee, although it does mix the soft 's' of standard English pronounciation and the oi vowel sound of the reconstructed ancient pronounciation.

As for Coccothraustes, is that Kokso-THRAW-stees or Kokko-THRAU-stees?

 

[Quercus]

And what about the silent (Scottish) "z" in capercaille in the old spelling, "capercalze". The name comes form the Gaelic for "horse of the woods"

( .......................and does one pronounce a silent "Z" as zed or zee?)

 

[ovenbird43]

-ough

hmm... bough = "bow", slough (the water body)= "slew", slough (as in to shed)= "sluff" ... any other pronounciations I am missing?

capercaille is another one I've wondered about... I won't embarass myself with my own interpretation, I'll just say I incorporate my french education background into it ||

 

[dddiver]

-ough

hmm... bough = "bow", slough (the water body)= "slew", slough (as in to shed)= "sluff" ... any other pronounciations I am missing?

capercaille is another one I've wondered about... I won't embarass myself with my own interpretation, I'll just say I incorporate my french education background into it ||

I've only ever heard it pronounced kapper kay lee.

 

[cjoakley]

It's the same in nearby Canada, but in either case followed by ",eh".

Thanks for that Robert!!!

This discussion is complicated enough without adding Canadian pronunciation into the equation - gad - has anyone here heard a Newfoundlander talk??? Makes Latin a piece of cake...

 

[Capercaillie71]

I'll just say I incorporate my french education background into it ||

I once heard somebody pronounce Guillemot with a silent T at the end, French style.

Edit: I should add that they weren't speaking French, in which case it would have been OK.

 

[Mark Harper]

At least with most of the birds mentioned any of the pronunciations would be good enough for someone to know what you were looking at, but how does one cope with Hawaiian Honeycreepers? Names such as Kauai Amakihi, Anianiau, Akiapolaau, Akikiki, Akekee, Akohekohe do not really trip off the tongue.

 

[Sancho]

I once heard somebody pronounce Guillemot with a silent T at the end, French style.

Edit: I should add that they weren't speaking French, in which case it would have been OK.

I always pronounce Guillemot with a silent T! Isn't that the way it's supposed to be pronounced? I mean, it's a pretty un-English word....BTW, how do you pronounce "Merganser"? Which syllable takes the stress?

 

[teamsaint]

When i read names out of books without hearing them i thought Cetti's sounded like the sofa - settee's warbler

I say Chetti's because of the guy who discovered it, apparently that's how to pronounce his name

 

[Robert / Seattle]

... BTW, how do you pronounce "Merganser"? Which syllable takes the stress?

Hey Sancho,

It's "mer-GAN-zer", around here.

Robert