MiddleRiver
Well-known member
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Habicht with sticky rubber (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter AegisEag
- Start date
A1 Knob.
I mean, if thousands of Habicht owners kept it in the dark 5 days a week and only use it weekends. And the leatherette is as good as new. And only less than 10 of us have the problems. Then it may have more specific causes. So if dark place, high humidity, moderate temperature are not supposed to damage the leatherette. Then it may be other causes. About Radon and others. Who knows. Knowing is important because it could mean there could be danger to health from those sources, and it is just sort of a detector for the problem.
How many Habicht owners are there worldwide? How many are in this forum? How many encountered the disintegrating leatherette?
Pictures are worth a thousand words.
I bought the Pentax Papilio the same time as the Habicht. Look at the molds at the sides of the Papilio. But none at the Habicht!
My packing tape is not holding in the latter because the stickiness can make it slip and not stick. Besides the Gorilla tape or packing tape. Would it work if I get a leatherette with self adhesive and stick it to the existing leathette? What else is there? I don't want to remove it because the bare body has the same stickiness from the inside of the disintegrating leatherette. And it would cost me $500 in import tax if I have to ship it to Austria because local customs look for original import tax which I don't have (so have to pay it to reimport it after repair).
The past 4 years I kept them at the cabinet because busy at work from changing places. So it is the darkness, humidity and heat that damaged the Habicht leatherette, right? Do the other thousands of owners support this? Because if they are not, it is really not unjustifiable to find other causes like radiation which should be big cause of concern because your health is at stake, not just the leatherette (which is like a detector of the hidden problem).
FWIW, we live in a very low Radon area.
What exact brand/model of radon detector are you using? I haven't used one before and I'm browsing models at amazon now and will order later. What model do you recommend? I saw this:
Anything else better than it?
Look. If there are only 3 of us here who have sticky Habicht and there are hundreds, if not thousands of owners who don't encounter it. We want to find out the source of the problem and be fair and not scare away those who plan to buy Habicht. This is also in fairness to Swarovski.
If at the end of the day it was really substandard leatherette in the Habicht and proven to be so, then class action lawsuit may not be improbable.
No idea about detectors. In the UK there are maps of Radon levels available at a fairly high level of detail and I just looked our location up.
Fraid I'm not interested in lawsuits. Swarovski will stand by the warranty, probably sort the issue more permanently in the future and, if they don't AND it becomes a recurring problem for me, I will just vote with my feet (I douny that will be necessary however).
Fraid I'm not interested in lawsuits. Swarovski will stand by the warranty, probably sort the issue more permanently in the future and, if they don't AND it becomes a recurring problem for me, I will just vote with my feet (I douny that will be necessary however).
dorubird
The unskilled mechanic blames his tools!
AegisEag,
The probability of being from radiation is very small. I think you skipped many other possibilities. For example, I would rather put the acidity of your sweat (skin PH) into the equation, which can interact with the finish of the binoculars. If there is sweat left on it, a certain PH can act over time, even in the drawer, with certain component of the Swaro finish, even without using the binoculars for a long time. I say this because most of the cases of disintegration of the finish of Swarovski EL binoculars are in warm areas where hand sweat is abundant. It can also be seen in the posted pictures of all cases, that the sticky cracks first appear in the area of contact with the skin. Maybe this is case with your Habicht also! Not all having the same PH, this explains why others did not have problems with the sticky armor on any Swarovski model. But to blame it on atomic radiation seems out of place to me. Only if I lived in Chernobyl would I think about atomic radiation probability. This is what I'm telling you, even though I also have a geiger muller counter. But I use it for measurements of old photo lenses that contain thorium!
The probability of being from radiation is very small. I think you skipped many other possibilities. For example, I would rather put the acidity of your sweat (skin PH) into the equation, which can interact with the finish of the binoculars. If there is sweat left on it, a certain PH can act over time, even in the drawer, with certain component of the Swaro finish, even without using the binoculars for a long time. I say this because most of the cases of disintegration of the finish of Swarovski EL binoculars are in warm areas where hand sweat is abundant. It can also be seen in the posted pictures of all cases, that the sticky cracks first appear in the area of contact with the skin. Maybe this is case with your Habicht also! Not all having the same PH, this explains why others did not have problems with the sticky armor on any Swarovski model. But to blame it on atomic radiation seems out of place to me. Only if I lived in Chernobyl would I think about atomic radiation probability. This is what I'm telling you, even though I also have a geiger muller counter. But I use it for measurements of old photo lenses that contain thorium!
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Why so?
"Radon exposure is the leading cause of lung cancer after smoking, and accounts for an estimated 16% of lung cancer deaths in Canada."
"Across Canada an average of 7% of homes have radon concentrations that exceed the guideline."
Radon action guide for provinces and territories: Overview - Canada.ca
This Radon Action Guide provides many steps provinces and territories can take to reduce radon exposure.
dorubird
The unskilled mechanic blames his tools!
Because Swarovski stated in e-mail responses that there are problems with the armor in hot areas and with high humidity. This is precisely why I say that the probability of it being from atomic radiation is low because there is a maximum probability that it is from a cause already reported by Swarovski. We don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to see that we have enough clues:
1 Swarovski binoculars
2 sticky finish
3 in a hot and humid area, like Lousiana where AegisEag live. "Louisiana has a humid subtropical climate (Köppen climate classification Cfa), with long, hot, humid summers and short, mild winters." (Wiki)
I don't exclude the possibility of atomic radiation, but it seems very small to me in the general context of the very "sticky" problems already reported for Swarovski binoculars!
ZeNiTh-PbArM
Well-known member
Hi
It can happen on rubber-like material when the chemistry of the mix was not correct. Unfortunately it only happens after a few years so it ain't easy for the manufacturer's quality control to detect. This happened on a whole batch of Canon IS binoculars a few years back. Your options are as follows :
1/ bring the binoculars to a Swarovski Australia dealer and have him send the bins back and forth to Austria for leatherette replacement. They will take care of paperwork correctly in order to avoid undue customs feed
2/ buy some camera leatherette online, and replace it yourself. Cheap and not difficult to do.
3/ wrap the bins in duct tape and live with it
Cheers
zp*
It can happen on rubber-like material when the chemistry of the mix was not correct. Unfortunately it only happens after a few years so it ain't easy for the manufacturer's quality control to detect. This happened on a whole batch of Canon IS binoculars a few years back. Your options are as follows :
1/ bring the binoculars to a Swarovski Australia dealer and have him send the bins back and forth to Austria for leatherette replacement. They will take care of paperwork correctly in order to avoid undue customs feed
2/ buy some camera leatherette online, and replace it yourself. Cheap and not difficult to do.
3/ wrap the bins in duct tape and live with it
Cheers
zp*
For option two. How long will the leatherette available online last? If I have to remove all the disintegrated leatherette and all the sticky stuff in the bare body. I need to cover all the lens and eyepieces first. Where will I get a cup that can cover the 2 objectives and the 2 green eyecups which was sent to me by someone because of much better spectacle use than the original eyecups.
I'd only risk sending it back to Swarovski if they can put armour like the Pentax Papilio II and last 50 years and shoulder all the shipping freight and taxes. Still I don't want to return it to Swaros 10 times (let's say it disintegrates every 5 years) even if they would do all that.
I'd only risk sending it back to Swarovski if they can put armour like the Pentax Papilio II and last 50 years and shoulder all the shipping freight and taxes. Still I don't want to return it to Swaros 10 times (let's say it disintegrates every 5 years) even if they would do all that.
UV light might help?
www.birdforum.net
Canon 10x30 IS stabilised binocular sticky covers
They're Yep, only some seem to be affected. BTW, your pair is ancient ... :) How much did you actually use it over the years, and do you have any problems with dust inside? One of the locals here has got an old pair (>10 years with a lot of use) as well, and his pair is pretty dusty inside...
www.birdforum.net
dorubird
The unskilled mechanic blames his tools!
Not your climat case, but your sweat PH reaction with certain component in the bino finish, can be an explanation.Not in my case - this is the UK after all.
"If there is sweat left on it, a certain PH can act over time, even in the drawer, with certain component of the Swaro finish, even without using the binoculars for a long time... Not all having the same PH, this explains why others did not have problems with the sticky armor on any Swarovski model"
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ZeNiTh-PbArM
Well-known member
Online available camera leatherette has never failed me (been using it for 15+ years to renew 50+ years old binoculars where leatherette was crumbling, never had one go sticky yet)
Swaro leatherette is most likely to last forever. Swaro as an industrial company works like this : warranty returns are analyzed, statistics are performed, when one part has significant failure rate they put effort to understand why. Then they work with their suppliers to make the product more robust. So if they have had a bad batch of leatherette they must know by now, and will make sure next batches are fixed. I would trust them to replace it with the best product available. And keep the binoculars originl, good looking, and retain the warranty.
I had them replace the leatherette on my 8x30 because is was worn after 15 years of harsh use and am very pleased with the results.
Cheers,
zp*
Perhaps, most design & manufacturing companies do apply this type of 'quality escape' approach .... however, don't assume that the problem will be addressed or that a solution will be easily or commercially available.
If the number of incidents are low, or the root cause is unknown, or the assessment is too costly, or the solution is too costly or technically unavailable, then they might live with the problem and simply replace the small number of affected bins.
An example is that some solvents (and other chemicals) have been outlawed by legislation and manufacturers have ended up with products that perform worse and no better technical solution is available (I can't cite the product or manufacturer [not optics] I am refereing to for commercial confidentiality reasons).
ZeNiTh-PbArM
Well-known member
Yes you are correct
In this case of sticky rubber I'm sure they can't afford to have many binoculars go sticky over five years, and in the XXIst century this problem is not unfixable (hey, most leatherette never fails). So remains the possibility they have low incident count and then chances are you won't have twice the same issue.
I've been working with a number of companies who have strong focus on quality and put a lot of effort and energy to understand and fix quality issues. Companies like Swaro who are handling the warranty repairs in-house are in an excellent position to do so and I would expect them to handle the matter seriously. But who knows...
Cheers
zp*
In this case of sticky rubber I'm sure they can't afford to have many binoculars go sticky over five years, and in the XXIst century this problem is not unfixable (hey, most leatherette never fails). So remains the possibility they have low incident count and then chances are you won't have twice the same issue.
I've been working with a number of companies who have strong focus on quality and put a lot of effort and energy to understand and fix quality issues. Companies like Swaro who are handling the warranty repairs in-house are in an excellent position to do so and I would expect them to handle the matter seriously. But who knows...
Cheers
zp*
