can anyone help? i am relatively new to the art of bird watching as i have said in several other posts,i have been feeding and watching the birds in my garden for about a year now ready to take it to the next level (whatever that is) but before i leave the safety of my garden and head out in the big world i need help,can you please tell me the diffference between male and female goldfinches, i have been hanging and refreshing a njger feeder for 6 months now and finally after almost given up i have a pair they visit every day and make several visits in that day,i only assume their are a pair as its always just the two of them but for all i know they could both be the same sex!! so you tell me "please". :gh:
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gold finches M or F (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter fledgling
- Start date
Goldfinch i.d.
Dear Fledgling
Male Goldfinches and female Goldfinches are very similar and telling them apart through a scope or bins at a small distance is going to be a challenge but not impossible. Most birds at this time of year -it is reasonable to assume- have paired up and will be together as you say. In fact, I have noted them nesting in mid March before.
Males have slightly brighter colours than females, but the big clues are the extent of the crimson blaze on the foreheads and the rounded - ness of the female's head. Also the males have blacker primaries and secondaries around the 'golden yellow bars' compared to the female's browner ones. As for this blaze, if you look very carefully, you will see that the male's extends beyond the eye into the whitish cheeks about 2mm further than the female. The head is definitely the place to look again because the nasal hairs at the base of the mandibles are also darker-blackish in fact- in the male whereas again in the female-yep-you guessed it, the hairs are more brown.
Having said all that, these differences are miniscule and hard enough to tell in the hand, let alone the bush so good luck and patience must be with you. The other thing you could look at is the behaviour of both sexes. The male will feed the female just like both would feed a fledgling. This is because at this time of year, a lot of pair bonding takes place. The female will often crouch shivering her wings and he will do the dutiful thing and feed her. Of course, sometimes they fight just like humans and so you need to be lucky here too.
I hope this helps
KR
Julian
Dear Fledgling
Male Goldfinches and female Goldfinches are very similar and telling them apart through a scope or bins at a small distance is going to be a challenge but not impossible. Most birds at this time of year -it is reasonable to assume- have paired up and will be together as you say. In fact, I have noted them nesting in mid March before.
Males have slightly brighter colours than females, but the big clues are the extent of the crimson blaze on the foreheads and the rounded - ness of the female's head. Also the males have blacker primaries and secondaries around the 'golden yellow bars' compared to the female's browner ones. As for this blaze, if you look very carefully, you will see that the male's extends beyond the eye into the whitish cheeks about 2mm further than the female. The head is definitely the place to look again because the nasal hairs at the base of the mandibles are also darker-blackish in fact- in the male whereas again in the female-yep-you guessed it, the hairs are more brown.
Having said all that, these differences are miniscule and hard enough to tell in the hand, let alone the bush so good luck and patience must be with you. The other thing you could look at is the behaviour of both sexes. The male will feed the female just like both would feed a fledgling. This is because at this time of year, a lot of pair bonding takes place. The female will often crouch shivering her wings and he will do the dutiful thing and feed her. Of course, sometimes they fight just like humans and so you need to be lucky here too.
I hope this helps
KR
Julian
christineredgate
Winner of the Copeland Wildlife Photographer of th
Thanks,Julian, interesting.Yes with most of the other garden birds,the difference is very visible between male and female,except perhaps for Jackdaws,Rooks,and Starlings,they all seem to look alike.
shelley810
Well-known member
fledgling said:
If you come for a visit to the US, the male/female differences in the American Goldfinch is way easier to distinguish. The exchange rate between the BP and USD
would also benefit you!
shelley
Ghostly Vision
Well-known member
Hi Fledgeling/all,
It is encouraging that you are looking this closely at your birds; it will do you a lot of good once your are venturing into the big wide world.
The definitive book for this kind of subtlety is the Lars Svensson Identification Guide to European passerines. The last edition is 1993, so there are some taxonomic gaps, but it is still a classic, and most useful book. The trouble is getting hold of it, as I believe it is out of print (and isn't there an updated edition due soon?).
Ageing and sexing birds I find a fascinating subject, as it allows one to look that bit more closely at the birds, and enjoy the subtleties of plumage a bit more.
Waxwings are classics for this. If you get chance to see aflock, check them out, as there are a number of things to check on them to differentiate the sexes and ages of a flock. It opens up a whole new world, and it will impress the county recorder if you not only count them, but age and sex them all!!!
Cheers
GV
It is encouraging that you are looking this closely at your birds; it will do you a lot of good once your are venturing into the big wide world.
The definitive book for this kind of subtlety is the Lars Svensson Identification Guide to European passerines. The last edition is 1993, so there are some taxonomic gaps, but it is still a classic, and most useful book. The trouble is getting hold of it, as I believe it is out of print (and isn't there an updated edition due soon?).
Ageing and sexing birds I find a fascinating subject, as it allows one to look that bit more closely at the birds, and enjoy the subtleties of plumage a bit more.
Waxwings are classics for this. If you get chance to see aflock, check them out, as there are a number of things to check on them to differentiate the sexes and ages of a flock. It opens up a whole new world, and it will impress the county recorder if you not only count them, but age and sex them all!!!
Cheers
GV
pianoman
duck and diver, bobolink and weaver
Goldfinch pair
Am virtually certain that these are a pair since they're regulars and always come to the feeder as a pair from what I think is their nest site 20m away.
Hard to get them both posing at the same time, this is as close as I could get. Would be very impressed if anyone can sex them.
Andrew
Am virtually certain that these are a pair since they're regulars and always come to the feeder as a pair from what I think is their nest site 20m away.
Hard to get them both posing at the same time, this is as close as I could get. Would be very impressed if anyone can sex them.
Andrew
Attachments
lou salomon
the birdonist
left male, right female (see julian's description)
pianoman
duck and diver, bobolink and weaver
Yes, the LH one looks generally a bit "spiffier". I had thought that the more indistinct, brownish margin to the gold wing flash on the RH one might have been camera shake, but on closer inspection it appears not.
Damned if I can see the differences in the extent of the red blaze though, bearing in mind the difference in head position. Although in life, as in the photo, the margin between the blaze and the black on crown seems less distinct on the RH bird.
Yes, I am impressed - thanks...
A
Damned if I can see the differences in the extent of the red blaze though, bearing in mind the difference in head position. Although in life, as in the photo, the margin between the blaze and the black on crown seems less distinct on the RH bird.
Yes, I am impressed - thanks...
A
Chris in France
Well-known member
What interests me about Pianoman's photo is that the black crown appears on the RH bird but not on the LH bird. Can the width of the black crown vary on individual birds, even sexes, or is this simply the angle of the two birds to the camera? I get up to seven goldfinches at any one time at the feeders and so I shall have plenty of opportunity to check out the comments on this interesting thread!
pianoman
duck and diver, bobolink and weaver
Chris,
The black crown is (to me) the same size on both; the difference is in the head angle. You can just see the edge of the black on the male's head.
Took a closer look at the feeder birds in the field and found:
I must say that of those features, the first is by far the most apparent to me when the birds aren't seen in perfect conditions. The head differences are difficult to see, but in a perched bird at least, the yellow transition to black on primaries is quite easy even from a distance.
Thanks Julian and Lou; I can't tell a wheatear from a dunnock but by golly I can sex a goldfinch now...
The black crown is (to me) the same size on both; the difference is in the head angle. You can just see the edge of the black on the male's head.
Took a closer look at the feeder birds in the field and found:
- Clearly defined, jet-black stripe between yellow flash and shoulder on male (as per Julian). Female's more diffuse.
- Slightly smaller wing flash on F (difference not as pronounced as it seems in the photo)
- In closeup and good light, F's mantle is very faintly streaked with a linnet-like pattern.
- In closeup and good light, Male's red blaze looks maroon close to bill. Female's looks russet (probably because as Julian says the nasal hairs are black on M and brown on F)
- Black on back of crown fades to red on F, more defined border on M.
- As Julian says, male has a slight bulge in the forehead. Again this seems exaggerated in the photo.
I must say that of those features, the first is by far the most apparent to me when the birds aren't seen in perfect conditions. The head differences are difficult to see, but in a perched bird at least, the yellow transition to black on primaries is quite easy even from a distance.
Thanks Julian and Lou; I can't tell a wheatear from a dunnock but by golly I can sex a goldfinch now...
