Frogspawn in tub (1 Viewer)

[vinnielo]

This year, I've discovered some spawn in a small tub at the bottom of my garden. I'll take a photo once I get my digicam fixed / buy a new one.
In previous years, I've had as much as 3 clumps of spawn. I've only found one (so far) this year.

In past years, I don't believe any have turned out to become froglets. I think all have died in that small space, despite a period of them seemingly "enjoying life" as they were swimming energetically, and making quite a bubbling noise in the water that could be heard from quite a way away.

I did also notice a period where they seemed to stop growing. I was looking for developments after getting bored at just staring at the same thing everyday. I read this in another thread:
"In nature larger tadpoles in crowded conditions produce growth inhibitors in their droppings which when eaten by other tadpoles, stunt their growth", which seems to explain what went on.

What should I do this year to help them out?
Should I move some out? Should I buy some oxygenating weed?
Should I clean the water every now and then?
Should I just leave them and let nature blah blah blah........?

It has been mildly upsetting for me to remove the corpses from the tub in the mid/late-summer.

 

[David Nicholson]

You didnt mention the size or depth of your tub. I would certainly put some oxygenators in there, and maybe a water lily if space allowed. This would possibly bring other smaller creatures in for the tadpoles to feed on as they get bigger. What else is in there? The smaller the pond, the harder it is to maintain the water quality. Also, are they able to climb out of the tub? Almost anything will do to act as a kind of ramp for them to climb on once their legs develop.
Cleaning a pond and a partial water change is sometimes needed, but I wouldnt do it at this time of year, its a job for late autumn/winter. You can get a sample of the water tested at an aquarium shop.

 

[vinnielo]

You didnt mention the size or depth of your tub.

I know, I was hoping the photo would do the job for me!
It's probably less than 1m x 1m with a grdually increasing depth from about 3cm to 20cm.

I would certainly put some oxygenators in there, and maybe a water lily if space allowed. This would possibly bring other smaller creatures in for the tadpoles to feed on as they get bigger.

Problem is that it's in a shady area.
From biology lessons, it seems it only produces oxygen when you've got a bright light shining at them!!

What else is in there?

Virtually nothing.
Bits of dead, rotting vegetation that's fallen in from hedge clippings.

The smaller the pond, the harder it is to maintain the water quality. Also, are they able to climb out of the tub? Almost anything will do to act as a kind of ramp for them to climb on once their legs develop.

If only their legs developed!
But yes, I do have ramps.

 

[Yaffle]

I've raised lots of tadpoles to froglets in garden ponds over the years, my experience of failure is that it is caused by:

a) the froglets drowning as soon as they get their front legs because there is no easy route out of the pond (not a problem in your case as they don't seem to get this far)

b) foul water because there are too many tadpoles in too small a volume of water

c) newts (or fish), which are voracious devourers of tadpoles

d) inadequate food, again because too many tadpoles in too small an area, in which case they stop growing and the weaker ones are eaten by the others. Once tadpoles are a reasonable size you would be surprised how much dry volume equivalent they eat. A thin coating of algea in a small pond is nowhere near enough for them and most will starve.

What I have done successfully to help in the past is to bring one or two lots of spawn indoors and rear the tadpoles 'intensively' on dried fish pellets (much cheaper than flakes and better) in a large plastic container. Crowding is absolutely no problem as long as they are kept well fed!

Rearing at a high density means the water needs changing every couple of days. Simple to do, just pour the whole lot into a kitchen sieve to remove the old water without losing any tadpoles; the other trick is not to refill with cold fresh tapwater, as this can be deadly.

Finally, when a good number are just getting their fronts legs I put them all back in the pond. Result is always successful and gives a great boost to the local frog population.

Good luck,

Yaffle

 

[vinnielo]

Thanks for that.
I may try that when they've grown to a suitable size.

What water do you use if it's not tap?
Is it important to take them INSIDE?

Also, I've heard stories of little kids throwing in too much fish food into their little jamjarfuls of tdapoles and simply clouding the water and killing them. I'm guessing this wouldn't be too much of a problem with frequent water changes.

Also, what size pellets do you use, and how much?

 

[Yaffle]

I'd start now with the spawn rather than wait until it hatches, they are all in one place at the moment!

I use tap water but not straight out of the cold main. At this time of year it is very cold and it is the sudden change from room temperature to this that does the damage. Water at or near room temperature from your hot tap will be fine.

I take them inside because they develop faster because of higher temperatures, you don't forget to feed and change the water and there is no danger of predators eating them or upsetting the container. When I say inside, this year I have just put the spawn in my garage.

The volume of feed to give is simple, just give them more pellets as soon as they have eaten the last lot. Finally, I use the large pellets but any size will be fine, they just gnaw away at them until they are gone.

Regards,

Yaffle

 

[vinnielo]

I'd start now with the spawn rather than wait until it hatches, they are all in one place at the moment!

How do you do it?
I've tried in the past, and it's like trying to separate long spaghetti - impossible, as it just sticks to other stuff.

The volume of feed to give is simple, just give them more pellets as soon as they have eaten the last lot. Finally, I use the large pellets but any size will be fine, they just gnaw away at them until they are gone.

So as soon as they are gone, you just pop in a few more pellets?
Is there no chance of overfeeding?

Do they produce any strong smells?
I might have to put them in the kitchen.

 

[Yaffle]

If it's like spaghetti then we must be talking about toadspawn, not frogspawn! Frogspawn is just one large lump of jelly that is easy to pick out in one go, toadspawn is laid in long strings. I get very little toadspawn but if you want to try with it then simply cut it into say 8 inch lengths with some scissors whilst in the pond and lift it out a bit at a time. I am trying again myself this year with toadspawn, but I have found toad tadpoles can be very fussy eaters compared with frog tadpoles, but it's worth a go.

No chance of overfeeding as they just eat as much as they can as quickly as they can before turning into froglets, just don't put any more in until the last lot is finished.

You'll only get a strong smell if you don't change the water every couple of days!

Yaffle

 

[vinnielo]

Thanks for that. A couple of days.... it's almost worse than looking after a pet you actually own!!
I was only trying to think of an analogy as to the difficulty of moving the clumps of stuff - they don't really look like spaghetti!

 

[dampflippers]

Hi Vinnie, I'll add my twopennorth!
By all means keep them outside but DO add some oxygenators even if it's shady. Several bunches please. You could also add a bag of daphnia from an aquarium shop which will help when they get to the meat eating stage.
I suggest having a bucket of tapwater next to the tub. Leave it for a couple of days to get rid of the chlorine etc, then use it to do a partial water change say once or twice a week once they have all hatched happily. I had some in a tub, and didn't change the water till it smelt awful...his was too late really. I wouldn't ue water out of the hot tap, just cold tap water that has sat for a couple of days. You can siphon the water out or use a jar to scoop it out.
I have a little booklet about keeping tads now, and they suggest feeding on a rabbit food pellet. I tried fish flake last year. they wouldn't touch it and it also made the water smell bad.
As others have said, make sure they can crawl out easily when they need to.

 

[Mickymouse]

How best to help then crawl out, I have a tub something like Vinnies with loads of spawn in it, a ramp is not realy feasible, could they climb up a piece of coarse cloth like a scramble net? what about over hanging leaves that dangle in the water.

Mick

 

[mothman]

If you get enough plantlife in the tub, a regular water change may not be necessary, and indeed may spoil the natural balance, as tap water is high in phosphates,this causes the familiar green soup effect(algae bloom)seen in so many poorly balanced ponds.Would it be possible to sink another tub near by and transfer half the population over thus halving the population density?
On the subject of oxygenator,plants like Hornwort(Ceratophyllium demersum) are desighned to work in low light conditions, and should work ok in shalow water like yours where they are near the surface.Please try to use British native species though, as imports are an enviromental problem in waiting(many are romping across British waterways ousting all in their path)OK species are as follows:
Hornworts(C demersum)&(C submersum)
The water Starworts(Callitriche)These even survive in deep tyre ruts
Canadian Pondweed(Anacharis canadensis)an honorary native and esiest to find.
I hope this helps a little more,but I cant help mentioning that you really should have a pond as no self respecting nature lover should be without,and a small garden is no excuse, just give up a bit of lawn(It has no decent use for nature anyway)!!

Colin.

 

[dampflippers]

You can improvise lots of exit routes. How about a brick with pebbl;es on top; a brick with plant pot with marginal in, and leaves draped over the edge; a piece of wood in diagonally; a piece of natural hessian draped over the edge; vegetation draped into the pool from outside eg overhanging grass etc.

 

[boyinthebush]

I' ve been watching this thread with interest as we've recently found an old, rain water filled plant pot filled with frog spawn in the garden... probably about 25cm deep and 20cm diameter.

 

[Gemma]

Can anyone suggest what to do?

Hi. Like some of the other people on here, I was cleaning the garden and i have found an old sandwich box (about 20cmx20cm) full of frogspawn. Also in the tub is another small plantpot. I went to take this out to make more room but there is a big frog behind it I want to help the frogspawn but don't know what to do. My garden does not have any water and there are no ponds in nearby gardens. Should i move the spawn to a bigger tub or leave it? Do i have to 'feed' it?
Any advice gladly received.
Thanks.

 

[Wickham]

A lot of you have asked whether there is a way for them to climb out, but it seems they don't grow to that stage.

However, even the tiniest tadpoles need to have a rest from swimming. If the side of the tub is smooth they can't grip it; they just swim to death. They need a rough-sided tub to get their little mouths onto something. Hang old cloths over the edge; they must be right at the edge because they always seem to swim right past sticks and the like just dangled in.

Keep the water fresh.

 

[dampflippers]

Hi. Like some of the other people on here, I was cleaning the garden and i have found an old sandwich box (about 20cmx20cm) full of frogspawn. Also in the tub is another small plantpot. I went to take this out to make more room but there is a big frog behind it I want to help the frogspawn but don't know what to do. My garden does not have any water and there are no ponds in nearby gardens. Should i move the spawn to a bigger tub or leave it? Do i have to 'feed' it?
Any advice gladly received.
Thanks.

Hi Gemma,
Run a clean well rinsed bucket of water preferably from a water butt and allow it to get to the approx same temperature as the box. If you don't have a water butt, use tap water, but if you can leave it for at least 24 hours before you use it to allow chlorine etc to go.
Either use this bucket or a plastic planting tub without holes, and put the spawn in.
I have heard pf people feeding tads on boiled lettuce, rabbit pellets and fish food. They will also eat the algae that will build up on the sides of the container.
To make it more pond like, go to a garden cenre and buy a bunch or 2 of oxygenating pond weed.
By then you will be hooked and want to make your own pond!!
There's lots of info on the "Conker Pond"
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/conker/pond-dip/

 

[Gemma]

Thanks for the advice. I will give it a go.

Hi Gemma,
Run a clean well rinsed bucket of water preferably from a water butt and allow it to get to the approx same temperature as the box. If you don't have a water butt, use tap water, but if you can leave it for at least 24 hours before you use it to allow chlorine etc to go.
Either use this bucket or a plastic planting tub without holes, and put the spawn in.
I have heard pf people feeding tads on boiled lettuce, rabbit pellets and fish food. They will also eat the algae that will build up on the sides of the container.
To make it more pond like, go to a garden cenre and buy a bunch or 2 of oxygenating pond weed.
By then you will be hooked and want to make your own pond!!
There's lots of info on the "Conker Pond"
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/conker/pond-dip/

 

[Vick2903]

I found a site that you could feed taddlypoles boiled Lettuce - I did boil some lettuce and when I put it in the pool the taddlypoles went mad for it the loved it! (o)<

 

[dampflippers]

I too can now confirm that they will eat boiled lettuce. They will eat boiled lettuce stem as well as leaves.