Deafness and Birding! - Merlin App & Microphone. (2 Viewers)

[akwe-xavante]

A little background...........

I've been birding for a tad over 40yrs and for the last 10+ i've suffered hearing loss. Which will no doubt continue to get worse.

Without NHS Hearing aids, i've lost roughly 30% of the upper frequency sounds in my left ear and 40%+ in my right. Theirs some improvement when i use my NHS hearing aids, but it ain't good. I struggle to hear even the Robin, i've lost just about all warblers song and calls, except perhaps a part of some species' song. A Garden Warbler for example is incomplete, i can only hear a part of it.

As a consequence, birding has become difficult to some extent because we often hear a bird long before we see it. Finding my local Cetti's Warbler "On My Own" is near impossible because its presence is heard first and with that you know where it is and their fore where to look for it.

I have downloaded the Merlin App onto my android smartphone and wow!, i'm impressed with it as a guide, a helpful aid. I've yet to try it to find my local Cetti's Warbler.

The phone's internal microphone is not directional, and i'm thinking that a directional microphone may be an additional advantage, perhaps. My thoughts here are that it may be possible for me to establish what direction to start looking for that Cetti's.

Has anybody any help or guidance to offer?

Has anybody tried to connect a Rode NTG2 shotgun microphone to a smartphone with any success? If so what adapter is required to do so? Is it possible to connect a Rode NTG2 to an android smartphone and get the merlin app to use the connected Rode microphone?

I've no desire to start recording birdsong as such.

When looking for "for example" a Pied Flycacher in a large wood, knowing that there could be a bird singing nearby is half the battle, knowing roughly what direction to look in is a bonus too.................. i can start to look for it!

 

[SaltyDogBirding]

Same problem here. My high frequency hearing has pretty much totally gone. No chance of hearing flyover pipits, crests, etc. I haven't heard a single Redwing this autumn despite thousands passing over the garden and not been able to hear Grasshopper Warblers for a few years now etc. I have found that Merlin can help with alerting you to the presence of some species but I don't want to spend all day staring at a phone screen waiting for some possible unknown bird to call rather than looking for birds with eyes. Although mostly good, Merlin sometimes throws up odd suggestions - RB Fly in my garden a couple of times in July springs to mind. Hearing loss is a huge disadvantage for bird finding generally and and certainly detracts from enjoyment realising your birding powers are nowhere near what they used to be. Still struggling to find any solution that really helps. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has any practical suggestions.

 

[kb57]

I sympathise with your hearing loss - not sure what % loss equates too in terms of hearing threshold - in my left ear my hearing threshold is 80dB at 8kHz, 60dB at 6kHz, but closer to normal at mid and lower frequencies. This means I can't hear high frequency calls and songs unless they're really loud, and the overall character of what I hear when uncorrected is therefore attenuated. I'm guessing your hearing loss is worse, as I can still hear Cetti's warblers and robins, although if I go out without my hearing aids Merlin will identify that birds are calling which I can't hear (when wearing them, the opposite occurs, and I can hear stuff that Merlin can't pick up on my inbuilt phone mic).

I've thought about getting a Røde directional microphone for my iPhone for bird call recording purposes, but the model made for a lightning connector (the VideoMic Me-L) seems increasingly hard to find, as Apple's newer models have had to move to USB-C. The NTG2 seems like a more professional mic which would in theory do the job better, but it has an XLR connection, designed for dedicated recording equipment (something like a Roland Edirol for example, if we're talking field use). I believe you can get adapters, but the setup is likely to be more unwieldy for field use. The VideoMic Me-C (for USB-C) would probably be a better option, and should fit all Android phones.

What I'd be more concerned about is the viability of a directional mic for bird detection as your main use case. My understanding is directional mics are used for that reason as they exclude extraneous sounds from other directions - so how will you know which way to point the mic, if you can't see the bird? You'd have to scan continuously, and as most species don't sing continuously, you'd have to rely on pointing in the right direction at the right time. Perhaps you need the opposite, something with broader sound gathering properties (a parabolic dish?) coupled with an external mic to improve the detection threshold.

 

[akwe-xavante]

not sure what % loss equates too in terms of hearing threshold

Thank you thus far to those that have replied to date.

Next time i get my hearing retested, i'll ask for more details. On my last visit, the tester said......

Take the avg human hearing frequency range, i've lost roughly 30% of the upper frequency range in my left ear and 40%+ in my right regardless of volume.

I could have a Wren or a Nightingale sat on my shoulder singing at the top of its voice and i wouldn't hear a thing!!

A birds' song has a frequency range, highs and lows as i understand it, and in some bird songs i can hear the lower frequency parts of the song but not the higher frequency parts any more. So some birds sound really weird nowadays. I can't hear most species of warbler any more and those that i can, i can only hear the lower frequency parts.

I've taken onboard the thoughts of those above and for now i've decided to try the app starting with the Cetti's over the weekend to see if the app can help me find it, and hopefully see it.

Knowing that for the last few days there has been one back in it's usual place, the app may let me know it's calling etc and therefore giving me a greater chance of finding and seeing it.

Not intending to use this app every time i go out birding, don't want to be glued to my phones screen all the time, but it could perhaps help me find and see specific targeted birds. Pied Fly for example, i can visit a wood where i know they nest every year, using the app may help me find them easier. Knowing that they have arrived and have started singing is half the battle. I then know that my efforts trying to find it are not a waste of time.

 

[Phil Bishop]

I sympathise with your hearing loss - not sure what % loss equates too in terms of hearing threshold - in my left ear my hearing threshold is 80dB at 8kHz, 60dB at 6kHz, but closer to normal at mid and lower frequencies. This means I can't hear high frequency calls and songs unless they're really loud, and the overall character of what I hear when uncorrected is therefore attenuated. I'm guessing your hearing loss is worse, as I can still hear Cetti's warblers and robins, although if I go out without my hearing aids Merlin will identify that birds are calling which I can't hear (when wearing them, the opposite occurs, and I can hear stuff that Merlin can't pick up on my inbuilt phone mic).

I've thought about getting a Røde directional microphone for my iPhone for bird call recording purposes, but the model made for a lightning connector (the VideoMic Me-L) seems increasingly hard to find, as Apple's newer models have had to move to USB-C. The NTG2 seems like a more professional mic which would in theory do the job better, but it has an XLR connection, designed for dedicated recording equipment (something like a Roland Edirol for example, if we're talking field use). I believe you can get adapters, but the setup is likely to be more unwieldy for field use. The VideoMic Me-C (for USB-C) would probably be a better option, and should fit all Android phones.

What I'd be more concerned about is the viability of a directional mic for bird detection as your main use case. My understanding is directional mics are used for that reason as they exclude extraneous sounds from other directions - so how will you know which way to point the mic, if you can't see the bird? You'd have to scan continuously, and as most species don't sing continuously, you'd have to rely on pointing in the right direction at the right time. Perhaps you need the opposite, something with broader sound gathering properties (a parabolic dish?) coupled with an external mic to improve the detection threshold.

As an experiment I have picked up a Movo X1 mini with a jack output along with a jack- lightning lead for my iPhone 14 a few days ago. Initial tests suggest the signal gain is a lot higher than the phone mic without being too directional.
It does use the phone for power, so it’s worth carrying an external phone battery to be safe.
I haven’t had the opportunity to do proper field tests yet unfortunately.

 

[LittleBitOfBreadNoCheese]

Thank you thus far to those that have replied to date.

Next time i get my hearing retested, i'll ask for more details. On my last visit, the tester said......

Take the avg human hearing frequency range, i've lost roughly 30% of the upper frequency range in my left ear and 40%+ in my right regardless of volume.

I could have a Wren or a Nightingale sat on my shoulder singing at the top of its voice and i wouldn't hear a thing!!

A birds' song has a frequency range, highs and lows as i understand it, and in some bird songs i can hear the lower frequency parts of the song but not the higher frequency parts any more. So some birds sound really weird nowadays. I can't hear most species of warbler any more and those that i can, i can only hear the lower frequency parts.

Yes I was a bit surprised you mentioned missing Robin as they sing a lot at ~ 3KHz but also a lot higher and the call is a lot higher too.

 

[MiddleRiver]

Hear Birds Again

"Hear Birds Again" is a free mobile app for birders with high frequency hearing loss who desire to once again enjoy the uplifting songs of wild birds.

hearbirdsagain.org

I've known two people who used the previously available commercial version of this. Both said it worked great. It doesn't depend on any additional directional microphones, but rather on shifting octaves to bring high freq down to where (hopefully) you can hear them.

 

[Andrew Rowlands]

shifting octaves to bring high freq down to where (hopefully) you can hear them

Similar to the FxSound app. I have on PC that helps breathe life back into most outdoor-based series, films and programs I watch.

 

[Brad Hacker]

Rode mic is great for this purpose; I have hearing loss and use this mic and Merlin to compensate. Here's the lightning connector version, I think: VideoMic Me-L | Smartphone Microphone | RØDE
(Non-lightning connector versions should be on that site too.)
Make sure to get the cat/windsock to reduce noise from wind and your footsteps.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

I can see that Merlin should work better with a directional mic. However, I am not sure how this would guide you to where the bird is located.

The problem is that Shotgun mics are not perfect. It is true that they are more directional for high frequency noise, which is where most hearing loss occurs, but I am not aware of any mics that reject off axis sound completely. Merlin will work with fairly quiet inputs, so the problem would be that Merlin may identify off axis sounds - which you then assume must be in front of the mic.

To get direction you really need to be looking at signal strength. Most recordists would do this by listening to (monitoring) the recording, but this isn’t an option for people with hearing loss. The next option would be to monitor the ballistics (input metres) on a field recorder. As you turn the mic the reading on the metres will increase. Obviously a mic to a recorder then a line out to your phone would be a faff (and more expensive).

Merlin does produce sonograms of the sound, so I think you could get used to interpreting this visual. As you turn the mic you would need to study the sonogram of say a Cetti’s Warbler, and determine when the song elements of the sonogram are darkest. It may be worth a bit of trial and error testing with Merlin to see if this is feasible.

Parabolas are far more directional than shotguns and become more directional as frequency increases. I recall there is a recent mini dish designed for use with a phone. A mini dish will not boost lower frequency noise, but this is not an issue if you are only interested in locating birds outside of your hearing range (I.e higher frequency noises). It may be worth checking if a small parabola will better suit your needs.

 

[Brad Hacker]

Yes, determining direction of sound is an issue that Merlin does not address directly. There are sound level meter apps that one could use for this purpose (e.g., the free NIOSH app https://apps.apple.com/us/app/niosh-sound-level-meter/id1096545820)--and probably some that show power spectra/sonograms--but I havent personally attempted this with a small shotgun mic. I have not been able to run Merlin and another sound app simultaneously on an iphone--Merlin seems to stop listening whenever I switch to a different app that uses the mic--but I'd be happy to be told that there is a workaround for this. Perhaps Merlin and a "sound volume" app can run simultaneously on Android?

 

[akwe-xavante]

Again, a thank you to all those that have contributed.

Lots to think about and consider.

The Hear Birds Again App looks interesting for apple users, as no android version is available yet. I'll keep my eye on this one.

As someone who is new to this app, i used it several times over the weekend in a number of different places / habitats.

I am shocked, knowing that i am missing so much!!

The app didn't ID anything unexpected (except one bird, below) and i saw every bird recorded by the app but one. It is frustrating that with a good pair of ears you can establish direction of sound quickly, whereas with the app you can't so you don't know where to look.

The local Cetti's wasn't heard nor seen by anybody over the weekend, and the app didn't ID it either....... work in progress.

Unexpected bird ID: But first a little additional info. In recent weeks in my district (North Yorkshire Coast), Hawfinches have been seen and heard in off the sea and along a fairly narrow adjacent coastal strip (within a couple of miles of the sea'ish). I visited a local broadleaved woodland for a walk out and the app heard Hawfinch, i didn't hear nor see it, but they aren't easy to see anyway. I have seen and heard Hawfinch in this wood several times in the past. This am in my back garden it also heard Hawfinch 3x over a 10min period, this time i did see a Hawfinch fly over. This is a new bird for the garden, and a very good one to get too.

The app did miss a couple of birds that i did hear, but the birds called once, once only. So i'm guessing that this isn't enough sometimes.

I'm going to continue with the app and learn, familiarize myself with it further before considering a self powered shotgun mic and an additional portable power supply, perhaps. Achieving some sort of directional guidance with something would be great, even if its just possible to establish if the bird is to the left, right, or in front of you or overhead when targeting a specific bird you want to see.

I'm off back out into the garden to see what i can find next............

 

[MiddleRiver]

Again, a thank you to all those that have contributed.

Lots to think about and consider.

The Hear Birds Again App looks interesting for apple users, as no android version is available yet. I'll keep my eye on this one.

As someone who is new to this app, i used it several times over the weekend in a number of different places / habitats.

I am shocked, knowing that i am missing so much!!

The app didn't ID anything unexpected (except one bird, below) and i saw every bird recorded by the app but one. It is frustrating that with a good pair of ears you can establish direction of sound quickly, whereas with the app you can't so you don't know where to look.

The local Cetti's wasn't heard nor seen by anybody over the weekend, and the app didn't ID it either....... work in progress.

Unexpected bird ID: But first a little additional info. In recent weeks in my district (North Yorkshire Coast), Hawfinches have been seen and heard in off the sea and along a fairly narrow adjacent coastal strip (within a couple of miles of the sea'ish). I visited a local broadleaved woodland for a walk out and the app heard Hawfinch, i didn't hear nor see it, but they aren't easy to see anyway. I have seen and heard Hawfinch in this wood several times in the past. This am in my back garden it also heard Hawfinch 3x over a 10min period, this time i did see a Hawfinch fly over. This is a new bird for the garden, and a very good one to get too.

The app did miss a couple of birds that i did hear, but the birds called once, once only. So i'm guessing that this isn't enough sometimes.

I'm going to continue with the app and learn, familiarize myself with it further before considering a self powered shotgun mic and an additional portable power supply, perhaps. Achieving some sort of directional guidance with something would be great, even if its just possible to establish if the bird is to the left, right, or in front of you or overhead when targeting a specific bird you want to see.

I'm off back out into the garden to see what i can find next............

Are you using it with headphone, hearing aids, or just phone speaker?

 

[akwe-xavante]

Are you using it with headphone, hearing aids, or just phone speaker?

I have completely lost 30 to 40% of the higher human frequency sound range in both ears.

I have NHS Bluetooth hearing aids.

An Android smartphone, using its integral mic and speakers, using the Merlin Bird ID App.

I cannot hear with my own ears, using the NHS hearing aids or the phone's integral speakers or any headphones, any sound whatever it may be within the top 30 to 40% of the human hearing frequency range at all. This includes the playback of any pre-recorded sound, whatever it may be, including calls and songs of birds, or any other sound source within the top 30 to 40% of the human hearing frequency range. Listening to music is a waste of time as i can only hear lower frequency sound. I can't hear some female singers / voices at all and most i struggle with at best.

With this in mind, i'm looking for something that will do this for me (As a Guide Only) to help me find specific targeted birds. To firstly help me target a specific bird opposed to a specific species, generally, then secondly target specific and difficult species such as wood warbler in spring in a huge woodland where you would normally hear the bird long before you find and see it.

Knowing that you are somewhere where you know someone else has heard and or seen a wood warbler that day or within the last few days and or i have seen the species in the past at the right time of day and year etc etc i'm hoping the app may help me find wood warbler again.

The phone and the app could with caution replace my ears.

 

[Jon.Bryant]

I remember someone reporting that BirdNet was misidentifying Robins as Hawfinches - the had to change the sensitivity of BirdNet to correct the issue. I am not sure if Merlin is similarly affected, but perhaps worth keeping in mind this potential for an error.

My wife has moderate hearing loss at high frequencies. She decided to get hearing aids and she has been really pleased with the results.

They are not NHS hearing aids, but are Bluetooth. The devices are really small and come in a charging case - no need to fit batteries! More importantly the hearing aids are programmed to only boost the frequencies where you have hearing loss. This has made a major change to my wife’s ability to hear birds - even Goldcrests! The hearing aids can be controlled by your mobile and even can have presets - so I think you can create an ‘out birding’ setting to say boost high pitched sound even further.

I sound like a salesman but as they are Bluetooth you can also use them when making calls through your mobile, or to listen to music on your mobile.

Your hearing loss sounds quite severe and therefore hearing aids may not work for you. I would however, suggest to anyone with moderate hearing loss to investigate all options for hearing aids - they have come a long way since my dad’s old devices that whistled horribly whenever you touched them. I am sure they are not perfect for everyone, and the top models seem expensive, but the batteries and technology should have a life of five years or so, so the cost per day of restoring your hearing is actually pretty good. My wife would definitely advise anyone with hearing loss to consider one of the top end hearing aids. She finds them essential for birdwatching now. I seem to think that the Editor of BB also resorted to hearing aids and could not praise them enough.

 

[akwe-xavante]

I remember someone reporting that BirdNet was misidentifying Robins as Hawfinches - the had to change the sensitivity of BirdNet to correct the issue. I am not sure if Merlin is similarly affected, but perhaps worth keeping in mind this potential for an error.

Thank you for this, i will bear this in mind. I am using the App with caution. The App hasn't done this again and i've been using it several time a day.

My wife has moderate hearing loss at high frequencies. She decided to get hearing aids and she has been really pleased with the results.

Did your wife have NHS hearing aids too, and if so can she notice any worthwhile difference between the two?

My NHS hearing aids are also Bluetooth and come with an app. i can connect them to any other Bluetooth compatible device and listen to radio, make and receive calls etc etc. My majority of my hearing loss is the result of working in a very noisy factory for 20yrs without ear protection, with a little normal older age related hearing loss thrown in.

When i last spoke to my NHS audiologist, i asked if purchasing "better" hearing aids would be a better option. He wasn't too pleased, i think i upset him! His reply was, assuming that the audio test results were the same, if there is any difference, it will be so small that no human ear would be capable of noticing it.

Once you've lost the ability to hear a range of frequencies altogether, "as i have" no hearing aid will recover it. He went on to say that the only worthwhile benefit to some people is that the aids are essentially hidden inside the ear and most people would not know you were wearing them.

 

[akwe-xavante]

Having used the app for a few days now, a number of problems require addressing.

The app is power hungry, and it's draining the battery quickly, so i'm exploring mobile phone battery banks / packs etc.

I need to somehow make it hands free in some way.

With help from the app, i have now successfully found and seen a Cetti's Warbler on my local patch without the help of others for the first time for a few years. I've discovered that the darker, the more clearly defined the sonograph is of the target bird's song / call the closer i get to it's position with a greater chance of seeing it.

 

[Ribbon]

When i last spoke to my NHS audiologist, i asked if purchasing "better" hearing aids would be a better option. He wasn't too pleased, i think i upset him! His reply was, assuming that the audio test results were the same, if there is any difference, it will be so small that no human ear would be capable of noticing it.

Once you've lost the ability to hear a range of frequencies altogether, "as i have" no hearing aid will recover it. He went on to say that the only worthwhile benefit to some people is that the aids are essentially hidden inside the ear and most people would not know you were wearing them.

This is interesting. In The Netherlands there are different categories of hearing aids (depending on the level of hearing loss) which can be (partially) paid for by health insurance.
And then there are so called 'free market' hearing aids which are (much) more expensive and are not paid for by the Dutch health insurance system. I'm not familiar with this last group, but I do have a frequently used pair which got covered by my insurance.
So if I'm correct the audiologist said there no noticeable difference between the NHS aids and the 'better' ones?

Since I spend loads of money on 'premium' optical equipment, camera's, lenses etc. I'm curious if there's also a 'step up' in quality for hearing aids. If I hear birds better with those 'free market' aids I'm willing to consider spending more money. It just seems hard to believe that the differences are hardly noticeable. How is the price difference justified then...?

 

[akwe-xavante]

How is the price difference justified then...?

UK NHS hearing aids are arguably ugly and to some unsightly, and they can get pulled out and lost and get caught up in stuff.
"Free Market" hearing aids are to most people invisible and can't get pulled out or caught up in stuff so easily.

Apologies to anyone who may be offended by the following.................

Some people will pay because you can't see them, cosmetically they look far better being invisible. Some will pay in the belief that they're expensive so they've got to be so much better, and there are those that are not aware that they can get free NHS hearing aids.

Those that sell "Free Market" hearing aids never advertise, saying that they are so much better than the free NHS hearing aids, if they were so much better than the free NHS aids then i think that they would advertise the fact.

When i've spoken to people about their "Free Market" hearing aids, one of the first things said is "nobody can see them" as they hold up their hands to their ears, they are then noticeably unhappy about the fact that i spotted them and asked.

No idea if anybody has independently without bias tested the difference between the two using the same audiology test..... is it actually possible even.

I have never heard anyone say that their expensive hearing aids are better because the sound quality is so much better, or that they can hear so much more with them compared to the free NHS aids.

 

[Ribbon]

Here on the other side of the North Sea there are also 'invisible' aids available which can be paid for by insurance...

Hearing loss gets classified in categories and every category has it's own range of aids where you can choose from. Every aid outside of that range/category is not covered by insurance.
Audiologists are therefore stating the main difference between 'insured' and 'free market' aids is how they are paid for.
It raises questions. For example why there's a categorisation and not a certain amount of money insured regardless the type of aid acquired...

Of course different countries/healthcare systems will deal with it in a different way...

I guess one can only know for sure when testing different kind of aids within the free market to know if there really is a significant difference...