Zeiss: Collection of cross-section and cutaway images (1 Viewer)

[John A Roberts]

Hi Lee (post #17),

Are you sure that the image is of the 8x56 version of the original Victory/ pre-FL version?

There is a Zeiss image showing 3 generations of 8x56’s, including the original Victory - the one that's at the bottom of the image
And a labelled version of the image is included in an article by Walter Besenmatter of Zeiss
see both at: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=369170

Note the different eyepieces:
- Besenmatter states that the 8x56 has a total of 10 glasses per side, so a 4 element eyepiece as is shown
- in contrast your image has a 5 element eyepiece

Additionally, your image has a different pattern to the 2nd and 3rd objective lenses

As there were also 10x56 and 12x56 versions of the original Victory, your image is presumedly one of those


John

 

[Troubador]

Hi Lee (post #17),

Are you sure that the image is of the 8x56 version of the original Victory/ pre-FL version?

There is a Zeiss image showing 3 generations of 8x56’s, including the original Victory - the one that's at the bottom of the image
And a labelled version of the image is included in an article by Walter Besenmatter of Zeiss
see both at: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=369170

Note the different eyepieces:
- Besenmatter states that the 8x56 has a total of 10 glasses per side, so a 4 element eyepiece as is shown
- in contrast your image has a 5 element eyepiece

Additionally, your image has a different pattern to the 2nd and 3rd objective lenses

As there were also 10x56 and 12x56 versions of the original Victory, your image is presumedly one of those


John

Hi John

That three-model image has been, I believe, reproduced with incorrect labelling in several places. I have excellent reasons to believe my labelling is correct here. The same source provided an image of the 10x56 and it is exactly the same. I have never seen a cutaway of the 12x and understand this was quite a rarity but it is entirely possible this differed optically from the 8x and 10x.

Lee

 

[Troubador]

Victory FL 8x56 and 8/10x42

The big FL: Henry's favourite in the drawing and the cutaway model is the 42mm. With thanks to Henry.

Lee

 

[John A Roberts]

Dialyt 8x30B

Hi again Lee (post #20),

I've discussed the 3 versions in some detail, and provided images including a cross-section of the 2nd version
see post # 8 and on at: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=378377


John

 

[henry link]

In some cases we may find it impossible to precisely identify different models in a series. I have a Zeiss brochure showing what appears to be a photo of an actual sliced 56mm Victory (I'll post later). It's labeled 8x56 and has the 5 element eyepiece. To me it seems more likely that the 4 element eyepiece was used on the 8x56 with the narrowest AFOV and the 5 element on the 10x56 and 12x56, although I suppose the 10x could have used either.

Also the green binocular in Lee's post # 23 is one of the 42mm FLs, not a 56mm. The 7x can be eliminated by the objective barrel length, but we can't tell whether it's the 8x or 10x.

Anybody know for sure whether the focusing lens shown in the 8x56 FL cutaway is a doublet or a strangely thick singlet and whether the field lens of the eyepiece is a doublet or singlet? I've closely perused that image for years without being sure.

Henry

 

[henry link]

Another thing just caught my eye about the 56mm Victory cutaway from post #17. The last two elements of the objective group are drawn as if they form a cemented doublet. According to the Walter Besenmatter article linked by Robert there should be an air space there between two lens faces with slightly different curvatures and the cutaway of the three models does show that. Apparently even these official drawings are not always accurate in every detail.

 

[Troubador]

have used either.

Also the green binocular in Lee's post # 23 is one of the 42mm FLs, not a 56mm. The 7x can be eliminated by the objective barrel length, but we can't tell whether it's the 8x or 10x.

Henry

Thanks for this Henry, I have amended the post.

Lee

 

[henry link]

The plot thickens. This image comes from a May, 2000 Zeiss binocular brochure, which only includes the 8x56 and 10x56 Victories, no 12x56. It sure looks like a photo of a real binocular that says 8x56 right on it. It's got what looks like the 5 element eyepiece from post #17, but the objective design doesn't match either of the cutaway drawings. This objective looks more like the Night Owl objective and even the eyepiece, on closer examination, appears to be a better match for the Night Owl's 5 element eyepiece.

 

[Troubador]

Anybody know for sure whether the focusing lens shown in the 8x56 FL cutaway is a doublet or a strangely thick singlet and whether the field lens of the eyepiece is a doublet or singlet? I've closely perused that image for years without being sure.

Henry

This cutaway was labelled FL 8x56mm when I found it BUT Zeiss Germany have identified it as a Victory Mk1 8x56, see Post 51 for more details.

Lee

 

[Troubador]

The plot thickens. This image comes from a May, 2000 Zeiss binocular brochure, which only includes the 8x56 and 10x56 Victories, no 12x56. It sure looks like a photo of a real binocular that says 8x56 right on it. It's got what looks like the 5 element eyepiece from post #17, but the objective design doesn't match either of the cutaway drawings. This objective looks more like the Night Owl objective and even the eyepiece, on closer examination, appears to be a better match for the Night Owl's 5 element eyepiece.

It does indeed look like a Night Owl/Design Selection objective but it doesn't have the slanted folding rubber eyecups of Night Owl and instead has pull-up eyecups as Victory Mk1

Lee

 

[henry link]

Hi Lee,

If it came from Allbinos they originally mislabeled that cutaway of the Victory as a Victory FL. I thought Arek was going to fix it. Maybe he didn't get around to it or the original mislabeled one might still be floating around.

Henry

 

[Troubador]

Hi Lee,

If it came from Allbinos they originally mislabeled that cutaway of the Victory as a Victory FL. I thought Arek was going to fix it. Maybe he didn't get around to it or the original mislabeled one might still be floating around.

Henry

Henry the cutaway in Post 29 has a different eyepiece from the one in Post 17.

Lee

 

[Troubador]

The plot thickens. This image comes from a May, 2000 Zeiss binocular brochure, which only includes the 8x56 and 10x56 Victories, no 12x56. It sure looks like a photo of a real binocular that says 8x56 right on it. It's got what looks like the 5 element eyepiece from post #17, but the objective design doesn't match either of the cutaway drawings. This objective looks more like the Night Owl objective and even the eyepiece, on closer examination, appears to be a better match for the Night Owl's 5 element eyepiece.

The plot certainly does thicken. The fine print in the document from which the cutaway in Post 17 was lifted specifies the 8x and 10x56mm Victories had a 4 pce objective but the cutaway only shows 3. Of course we do not know whether it is the drawing or the text which is accurate, or indeed, neither.

Lee

 

[henry link]

Henry the cutaway in Post 29 has a different eyepiece from the one in Post 17.

Lee

It still has to be one of the 56mm Victory Mk I models, because the hinge details visible at the bottom match only the Victory MK I, not the Victory FL.

I think the "4 pce objective" probably includes the focusing element. This really is going to be an infinitely long thread isn't it?

Henry

 

[Troubador]

It still has to be one of the 56mm Victory Mk I models, because the hinge details visible at the bottom match only the Victory MK I, not the Victory FL.

I think the "4 pce objective" probably includes the focusing element. This really is going to be an infinitely long thread isn't it?

Henry

OMG I see what you mean about the hinge. Who was it that said something like 'infinity is a long way, especially near the end' ?:eek!:

Lee

 

[Rico70]

Lee: Perhaps the title I have chosen was less than ideal. Maybe we replace the reference to CZJ 8x50 Nobilem Super with 'All brands'

Maybe the title could be:
"Collection of sectioned binoculars images"
... to tighten and to clarify that we are talking about binoculars?

 

[John A Roberts]

Victory FL Images & Information

The FL’s were offered in 3 lines

A) x32
- see the image of the 8x32, and
- note that the 10x32 has 2 extra lenses: https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3840417&postcount=32
(I’ve attached a copy of the info from Zeiss)

- - - -
B) x42
The 7x42 has a 9 mm (.35”) shorter objective body then both the 8x42 and 10x42 - see the attached introductory 2004 brochure for the details
I've additionally included a page from the brochure showing the main FL technologies

In terms of optical images, I’ve not seen one for the 7x42

But see firstly:
- what is described as an 8x42, from Cley Spy at: http://cleyspy.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/birders-best-friend-short-history-of.html (previously provided by Lee in post #23)

And so what would be the 10x42, both from:
- Zeiss, and
- BHS at: http://www.monocular.info/bhs-meeting2017.htm

- - - -
C) x56

See the copy of a 2006 brochure - along with an image from it that confirms that the focusing unit is an achromat i.e. it has 2 lenses

I've also attached the clearest version of the image that I've found, which has different highlighted features


John


p.s. Henry (post #25), I've also played around adjusting the properties of the x56 image, trying to work out whether the field lens is a doublet or not, but it's just not clear enough

 

[John A Roberts]

And the x42 information . . .

 

[John A Roberts]

And x56 information . . .

 

[John A Roberts]

Zeiss SF & HT Images & Information

I’ve previously posted a lot of information here: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=370530

n.b. there has been ongoing confusion as how to correctly interpret the drawn images of the optical construction of the HT and the SF e.g. see the attached comparative image
I recently discussed this at: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=3944858#post3944858, see posts #157 and 173
(in part the confusion is because unlike Leica and Swarovski, Zeiss does not routinely indicate how many lenses are in each model)

Also see a recent interview that Lee had with Gerold Dobler about the development of the SF at: https://www.houseofoutdoor.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/NewProdDec_SF.pdf
Among other things, Dobler confirms that all 3 of the objective lenses use fluoride glass (see the second last paragraph on page 4)

And for some information about the use of Schott HT glass in the HT and SF see from post #27 at: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=379983&page=2


John


p.s. for the technically inclined, I've attached copy of the US patent from 2014 for the HT focuser mechanism