Yehliu Geopark, Wanli District TW-New Taipei City, November 2024 (1 Viewer)

[jbpixels]

Good morning to all of you. Please id this cutie for me. By the way is Yehliu geopark an amazing birding place - full of surprises. Beside the spectacular geological scenery also a fantastic birding location (363 species in eBird). Thank you for your id support.

I guess I found a backside view of the same bird in my raw files. Looks like it had a hard time.

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

1st-w Narcissus Flycatcher

Grahame

 

[jbpixels]

1st-w Narcissus Flycatcher

Grahame

Thanks for the id. Would you please be so kind to feature differences between a female and a young bird.

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

Thanks for the id. Would you please be so kind to feature differences between a female and a young bird.

The pattern of the uppermost tertials, the pale fringe terminating in a 'hook' which extends up the shaft + pattern of innermost greater coverts which have broad buffs tips.

Grahame

 

[johnallcock]

Could it be a Ryukyu Flycatcher? I'm struggling to be sure on the upperpart tone, but it looks slightly green-tinged on my screen. It also has yellow in the centre of the underparts, but I'm not sure if this is actual colour or staining from vegetaton. The fringes to the tertials look broader and paler than I usually see on Narcissus.
I'm not very familiar with Ryukyu though (I've only seen one male), so I'm not sure whether other features fit.

 

[jbpixels]

The pattern of the uppermost tertials, the pale fringe terminating in a 'hook' which extends up the shaft + pattern of innermost greater coverts which have broad buffs tips.

Grahame

Despite your amazing knowledge base, is there a source where I could get these detailed infos?

 

[johnallcock]

Despite your amazing knowledge base, is there a source where I could get these detailed infos?

The contrast/pattern that Grahame mentions is common to many flycatchers, which retain juvenile tertials/coverts that have pale tips/fringes, often with a hook along the feather shaft. There should be plenty of references describing this as a way to age these species (especially if you can get hold of a ringing/banding manual).

Specifically for Narcissus-type Flycatchers, there is a useful description of the different plumages on the Birds Korea website: Birds Korea - ID-Note - Narcissus Flycatchers types

I think there has also been something published more recently by Oriental Bird Club (in BirdingAsia?) but I don't have access to that at the moment.

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

Could it be a Ryukyu Flycatcher? I'm struggling to be sure on the upperpart tone, but it looks slightly green-tinged on my screen. It also has yellow in the centre of the underparts, but I'm not sure if this is actual colour or staining from vegetaton. The fringes to the tertials look broader and paler than I usually see on Narcissus.
I'm not very familiar with Ryukyu though (I've only seen one male), so I'm not sure whether other features fit.

John, looking at images online, mantle colour and strength of tertial fringing are both variable and within range of variation IMHO. We cannot see the uppertail coverts which are supposed to be olive-brown in Ryukyu versus rufous in Narcissus. I noticed the 'yellow' centrally in the underparts, difficult to be sure if its real or simply staining? Could it be a Rykukyu? In this plumage, who knows? However, difference in undertail covert length is mentioned as a feature and they appear on the long side which would favour Narcissus.

I believe this is the paper John is referring to in his last post.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...tcher_complex_in_subadult_and_female_plumages

Grahame

 

[jbpixels]

Thanks for the info pages.

 

[johnallcock]

John, looking at images online, mantle colour and strength of tertial fringing are both variable and within range of variation IMHO. We cannot see the uppertail coverts which are supposed to be olive-brown in Ryukyu versus rufous in Narcissus. I noticed the 'yellow' centrally in the underparts, difficult to be sure if its real or simply staining? Could it be a Rykukyu? In this plumage, who knows? However, difference in undertail covert length is mentioned as a feature and they appear on the long side which would favour Narcissus.

I believe this the paper John is referring in his last post.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...tcher_complex_in_subadult_and_female_plumages

Grahame

Thanks Grahame. You're probably right that it's Narcissus.
This is a difficult species pair in this plumage and I try to be aware of the risk of overlooking Ryukyu away from the core breeding range. It's only relatively recently (past 15-20 years) that it's been understood that some Ryukyu do seem to migrate, but we still know very little about their movements.

 

[Grahame Walbridge]

Thanks Grahame. You're probably right that it's Narcissus.
This is a difficult species pair in this plumage and I try to be aware of the risk of overlooking Ryukyu away from the core breeding range. It's only relatively recently (past 15-20 years) that it's been understood that some Ryukyu do seem to migrate, but we still know very little about their movements.

A final observation concerns differences in pp, in particular, the spacing between P5/P6 > P6/P7 in Narcissus versus Ryukyu where values are roughly equal. The OP clearly has a long pp, the difference between P5/P6 > P6/P7 thus confirming ID as Narcissus.

Narcissus
ML624827410 - Narcissus Flycatcher - Macaulay Library
ML234514091 - Narcissus Flycatcher - Macaulay Library

Ryukyu
https://macaulaylibrary.org/asset/61061626
ML565001301 - Ryukyu Flycatcher - Macaulay Library

Grahame