Wilson's Snipe vs Common Snipe (2 Viewers)

[PONYRCR]

Some field guides have a Common Snipe or a Wilson's Snipe but I've yet to find one that lists both.

Are they the same bird??

I know some birds have had their common names changed.

Just curious if this is the case with this snipe.

 

[AlexC]

The AOU (American Ornithologists' Union) split Common Snipe (Gallinago gallinago) and Wilson's Snipe (Gallinago delicata) a few years back. Any field guide edition that still has the two as subspecies (e.g. Sibley) was released before the AOU's split.

 

[Dave Hall]

Hi Wilson's Snipe is a sub species of Common Snipe or is it the other way round ?

 

[Gomphus]

Hiya,

See it depends where you are in the world! :-O These splits and lumps are fun arn't they. Wilson's Snipe is the North American snipe whether you treat it as a seperate species as the AOU, or a sub species of Common Snipe as the BOU! There are several subtle differences in plumage between gallinago and delicata, most often quoted is the different pattern on the underwing, and also including, I believe, differences in the outer tailfeathers that produce the distinctive drumming sounds so that they do produce a different sound in Common to Wilson's. At risk of being corrected, this alone could be said to indicate enough difference to split 'em?

Cheers

 

[AlexC]

It's not so much that things are subspecies of other things, they're just different taxa. As far as Common/Wilson's, by AOU they're different species, but by, say, BOU, they're subspecies, gallinago being the Eurasian subspecies, and delicata being the American subspecies.

Example: Just because Eastern Kingbird is Tyrannus tyrannus doesn't mean all other species in the Tyrannus genus are any LESS Tyrannus-y - it's just a matter of "who-was-named-first" (known as "nominate" species / subspecies).

 

[cuckooroller]

BYA,
Separation of delicatula and all other races associated with gallinago is principally morphologically determined by presence in delicatula of 16 rectrices in controposition to the usual 14 of the other races.

Both nominate gallinago, and delicatula are sympatric breeders in the US (precisely in Alaska in the W Aleutians).

 

[Gentoo]

Hi Wilson's Snipe is a sub species of Common Snipe or is it the other way round ?

Common is the nominate form so generally one would say that Wilson's is/was a subspecies of Common.

 

[Gentoo]

Separation of delicatula and all other races associated with gallinago is principally morphologically determined by presence in delicatula of 16 rectrices in controposition to the usual 14 of the other races.

Was this really the only evidence used to split the two? Also do we know if the interbreed in Alaska?

 

[AlexC]

I actually know the guy who wrote the proposal to the AOU to have Common and Wilson's split (Jon Dunn). I could... shoot him an e-mail to ask what he mentioned in his proposal.

And as Steve says, Common Snipe's expected in parts of Alaska.

 

[Gentoo]

I actually know the guy who wrote the proposal to the AOU to have Common and Wilson's split (Jon Dunn). I could... shoot him an e-mail to ask what he mentioned in his proposal.

And as Steve says, Common Snipe's expected in parts of Alaska.

Alex that would be awesome. I'd love to read that!

 

[cuckooroller]

Do we know if they interbreed in Alaska?

Hi Gentoo,
My intrepretation of what I read in regard would seem to subtend that they do not - that there might be some type of mechanism of reproductive isolation in play - but that is just my sense and I have seen nothing that absolutely excludes interbreeding in the Aleutians.

 

[Binocularface]

This is an interesting thread. IMHO the seperation of these two species in the field is a bit of a mine field due to individual variation (see attached images). It is not often you can count the retrices on snipe! I guess to identify an out of range Wilson's Snipe or Common Snipe you would have to be able to see the whole suite of characters, given the behaviour of these species (sub-species) this would be a tricky ask!

 

[AlexC]

Sibley points out the "broad white tips on secondaries" and "white bars on underwing coverts" of Common Snipe to differentiate it from Wilson's. Of course, both of those field marks can pretty much only be seen in flight. Again, I'll try and get ahold of that proposal / some info from it.