Wild boar in Britain (2 Viewers)

[Otto McDiesel]

Wild boar are found throughout Europe. Do they have any effect on bluebells there?

No. Both are common in Eastern Europe.

 

[Keith Reeder]

Nope, please reread post 120 Keith.

Hi Sandra,

I did, and I have again.

But I also read post 85, where you said (with my emphasis):

Thirdly, although the presence of wild boar are said to have a positive effect on our forests (there is an on going trial supported by the Foresty commision at Glen Affric) they have the potential to do much damage to the unique British Bluebell, what action if any, is being proposed to limit the damage?

 

[Isurus]

Whilst I agree some of our bluebell heavy sites are at unnatural densities I do feel it would be a shame to lose them unnecessarily - they are a wonderful spectacle (and great "ambassador sites for nature" if you know what I mean)even if they do result from our damaged ecosystem. I don't see this as uncompatible with the new boar population however as I believe a policy of enclosing/culling locally at these special sites is necessary in respect of muntjac and therefore it would be a simple extension of this in respect of boar.

 

[Eider-Duck]

Hi Sandra,

I did, and I have again.

But I also read post 85, where you said (with my emphasis):

So what are you saying exactly Keith? am I not allowed to change my mind about something? (post 120 came after post 85) post 120 spelt out my veiws on the subject clearly enough, I thought the whole point of debate was to, well debate and to redefine stances as the debate moves on? (following your logic perhaps we should go all the way back to the point where I entered the debate and start "discussing" the culling, hunting of wild boar again? ( :stuck:, in groundhog day style!!!)

 

[Keith Reeder]

Sandra,

I'm just saying that if you have changed your mind, that's great - but that your messages were a bit mixed.

Let's not get into a round of "well if you read my post XX after I'd written that I think [something or other] in post YY...", though. Life's too short.

 

[Eider-Duck]

Sandra,

I'm just saying that if you have changed your mind, that's great - but that your messages were a bit mixed.

Let's not get into a round of "well if you read my post XX after I'd written that I think [something or other] in post YY...", though. Life's too short.

Keith, I accept that wild boars are here to stay, and what's more I might actually enjoy seeing them one day! (they are cute in their own way!) That does not mean that all my concerns have vanished, they have not, however as I have said, on reflection, I believe that wild boars should allowed to live as freely in the woods of Britain as they already do.

 

[Keith Reeder]

I couldn't agree more, Sandra - I wouldn't want them either if the price was too high, but otherwise they'd be a fantastic addition to the UK fauna.

 

[Strandman]

I couldn't agree more, Sandra - I wouldn't want them either if the price was too high, but otherwise they'd be a fantastic addition to the UK fauna.

Don't forget- you have until 6th Jan to respond to the DEFRA consultation. Make your views known.

 

[Isurus]

:C Why do people just feel the need to liberate these animals for their own "welfare"! How is being chased by dogs and quads to round them up and if that fails getting shot at going to make their live's better?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4579608.stm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...oar01.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/01/01/ixhome.html

 

[Otto McDiesel]

How is being chased by dogs and quads to round them up and if that fails getting shot at going to make their live's better?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/4579608.stm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...oar01.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/01/01/ixhome.html

"They escaped - 100 of them....after a raid on the Woodland Wild Boar farm which has been blamed on animal rights extremists." Says the Telegraph.
So who is to blame that reasonable and sound management of boar will fail in UK?

By the way. Why are my posts deleted when i suggest that hunting is a viable management option that most often works for conservation rather than against it? Is this web site sponsored by PETA and such?

 

[willowa]

Yes, they are here, living in the wild thanks to the irresponsibility of some farmers allowing the wild boars to escape in contravention of the Wildlife and Countryside Act.

It`s Animal rights activists that let the mink, wild boar ect out into the countryside they should think about thier actions. Are they realy helping the animals.

 

[Isurus]

well the result of the big hunt yesterday was one boar recaptured. barring a miracle I'd guess we now have a 4th free-living population (especially given the timing of the escape/release).

which posts were removed, otto?

 

[Otto McDiesel]

barring a miracle I'd guess we now have a 4th free-living population (especially given the timing of the escape/release).

There are no miracles like that. What you have there is boar all over UK within a decade. The consultations about boar reintroductions are meaningless, you already have free boar, and they are there to stay.

Most people assume that they will only inhabit large forests. That is a mistake. They live everywhere, from brush to reeds, from forest to wetlands.

Many ground dweling critters, such as ground nesting birds, snakes, amphibians, and others (if there are any Woodcock left in UK, you can kiss them goodbye), will pay a heavy price.

Be ready to see boar in towns and cities becoming just as common as foxes.

 

[Strandman]

There are no miracles like that. What you have there is boar all over UK within a decade. The consultations about boar reintroductions are meaningless, you already have free boar, and they are there to stay.

Most people assume that they will only inhabit large forests. That is a mistake. They live everywhere, from brush to reeds, from forest to wetlands.

Many ground dweling critters, such as ground nesting birds, snakes, amphibians, and others (if there are any Woodcock left in UK, you can kiss them goodbye), will pay a heavy price.

Be ready to see boar in towns and cities becoming just as common as foxes.

Hey Otto

I don't think we are quite that illusioned here about their habitat preferences. They are expected to settle in very happily into lightly wooded arable land and other habitats as you say. As they have done in mainland W Europe.

But there is a feeling here that-because of the relatively fragmented nature of the habitat- very suitable for wild boar, but fragmented- that numbers can be controlled through hunting better than in some other places where they have become a problem- such as US.

Is that naive? Maybe- but it appears to have happened with one of the current populations, which is heavily culled and has not grown exponentially over the last ten years as one might otherwise expect it to have done in such prime habitat.

And we did manage to eradicate them once before in the 14thC just using swords and spears...not that I am suggesting reviving that approach.

 

[Otto McDiesel]

Hey Otto

I don't think we are quite that illusioned here about their habitat preferences. They are expected to settle in very happily into lightly wooded arable land and other habitats as you say. As they have done in mainland W Europe.

But there is a feeling here that-because of the relatively fragmented nature of the habitat- very suitable for wild boar, but fragmented- that numbers can be controlled through hunting better than in some other places where they have become a problem- such as US.

Is that naive? Maybe- but it appears to have happened with one of the current populations, which is heavily culled and has not grown exponentially over the last ten years as one might otherwise expect it to have done in h prime habitat.

And we did manage to eradicate them once before in the 14thC just using swords and spears...not that I am suggesting reviving that approach.

The United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) pays people good money to control boar and feral hog populations, and they are not even considered game animals in most states (which means that there are no hunting seasons or bag limits and you don't need a license - you can take as many as you want year round). Yet, all these measures don't even dent hog numbers. Most of the eastern US is just as fragmented as UK.
The difference is the size and influence of the animal rights movement. I fear that in UK they will make boar a symbol, just as they did with foxes.

The truth is, opportunists such as deer and boar thrive in fragmented landscapes, and the fragmentation makes it very difficult to control their populations. Nevertheless, we now have valuable tools, such as wildlife contraceptives, to aid management. Realistically speaking, the issue is no longer about boar re-introduction. They are there. The issue is how to prevent boar overpopulations. A combination of boar and fox overpopulations and habitat fragmentation will spell disaster for a long list of species that depend on early succesional stages of vegetation and on forest floors.

The Middle Ages extinction of boar in UK may have been aided by some epidemic that we are not aware of.

My guess is that 15 years from now RSPB will rally against boar, just as the Audubon Society rallies now against white-tailed deer.
Bunny-lover, tree-hugger -vegetarians are not going to like that.

 

[Strandman]

The United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) pays people good money to control boar and feral hog populations, and they are not even considered game animals in most states (which means that there are no hunting seasons or bag limits and you don't need a license - you can take as many as you want year round). Yet, all these measures don't even dent hog numbers. Most of the eastern US is just as fragmented as UK.
The difference is the size and influence of the animal rights movement. I fear that in UK they will make boar a symbol, just as they did with foxes.

I hear you and can also hear the sound of the moderators on their way...

For what it's worth, I don't see the animal rights movement putting up any serious (i.e. effective) opposition to culling of wild boar by shooting with high-powered rifle, any more than they currently do in relation to culling by shooting of deer or indeed foxes- which are heavily controlled here by lamping at night.

But we shall see.

 

[Amarillo]

There are no miracles like that. What you have there is boar all over UK within a decade. The consultations about boar reintroductions are meaningless, you already have free boar, and they are there to stay.

Most people assume that they will only inhabit large forests. That is a mistake. They live everywhere, from brush to reeds, from forest to wetlands.

Many ground dweling critters, such as ground nesting birds, snakes, amphibians, and others (if there are any Woodcock left in UK, you can kiss them goodbye), will pay a heavy price.

Be ready to see boar in towns and cities becoming just as common as foxes.

Otto

I agree that whatever the outcome of this consultation, they are here to stay.

But don't confuse the situation here in the UK with that in the US. Boar are native to the UK so are highly unlikely to have an adverse effect on other native flora and fauna. In the US they cause problems because they are an alien species.

There are still woodcock in the UK, but nowhere near as many as when wild boar lived here.

 

[Edward woodwood]

bet they taste pretty decent if peccary meat is anything to go by

why not use the culled animals for meat?

save transporting chickens pumped full of water, H5N1 and pig protein all over the world. I bet it'd go down a treat among the chattering classes...

....well we had wild boar last nite with a raspberry sauce dontchooknow

Tim

 

[Amarillo]

why not use the culled animals for meat?

Tim

Absolutely. There is real potential for a game-meat industry. I'm sure most of us would much rather eat meat from wild animals than farmed ones.

What happens to the thousands of deer that are culled in the UK? I rarely see venison for sale in butchers shops or supermarkets and when I do its very expensive

 

[Otto McDiesel]

What happens to the thousands of deer that are culled in the UK? I rarely see venison for sale in butchers shops or supermarkets and when I do its very expensive

Over here (US) it's given (hog meat and venison) and to soup kitchens and other organizations that feed people who have no food.

Yes, there is a big difference between native boar and exotic boar (US vs Europe). If push comes to shove, they could be extinct-ized once again. It's easier to do so on an island.

Woodcock, i am afraid, is on a loosing end because of habitat fragmentation, structure of vegetation in forests, cats, foxes, etc. They should not suffer too much because of boar, in a natural evironment, but that's no longer the case.

Spanish style ham made of boar is the best cured meat i've ever tasted. We have a herd of feral hog/boar visiting our farm every now and then, and i am all too happy to oblige. Of course, it's much more environmentaly friendly than farming animals and feeding them grain.