Which Upstate New York Raptor? (1 Viewer)

[CurtMorgan]

I saw this raptor fly over a field of thousands of blackbirds at about 4:30 pm on November 8, 2014. Do you know which one it is?

 

[Reuven_M]

Northern Goshawk

 

[birdmeister]

I agree. Immature Goshawk.

 

[gerdwichers8]

Inintially I was puzzled by the square ended tail, posting it may be a Cooper's but for the rest of it, I end up with Goshawk as well.
Would the tail be in moult; being so square ended?

 

[CurtMorgan]

I am going to go with gerdwichers8's initial assessment. Unhappily, I have concluded that it is a Cooper's Hawk. The season is not right for a Goshawk.

 

[Tiraya]

I am going to go with gerdwichers8's initial assessment. Unhappily, I have concluded that it is a Cooper's Hawk. The season is not right for a Goshawk.

I wouldn't discount an out-of-season bird so easily. It isn't uncommon for some birds to appear at a time of year we assume is unusual.

 

[ceasar]

I am going to go with gerdwichers8's initial assessment. Unhappily, I have concluded that it is a Cooper's Hawk. The season is not right for a Goshawk.

Curt

Wheeler's range map for the Northern Goshawk shows that it has a permanent range throughout the year in much of New York State from Canada down through the Adirondacks continuing to the Catskills and then west through the Northern Tier counties of Pennsylvania. It also shows a winter range for it in the Albany area and along the south shore of Lake Ontario and in NW Vermont along Lake Champlain.

See page #190 in his RAPTORS of Eastern North America. It's winter range extends through PA, NJ, parts of W. VA, Northern VA, the DelMarVa peninsula and down the Appalachian mountains to the Smokeys.

I've seen them in the winter in NE PA where I live. 24 were counted at Hawk Mountain this past year.

Size is difficult to tell here. The pictures are good and if it were a Goshawk one should be able to see the white eye brow which adults and juveniles have. A Cooper's Hawk should have a rounded tail. I wonder if it is not a Sharp-shin with its square notched tail?

Bob

 

[Nutcracker]

Looks like a juv. Gos to me too, and I don't see why it should be unseasonable - I'd have thought it was a better chance of finding in upstate NY in winter, than in summer.

 

[RJP]

Remember this is an old thread, and Curt took the photos on Nov. 8. I also think that is a very reasonable date to see a Goshawk in New York. I only have detailed data for Indiana, but here, the best time to see a Goshawk in the fall is late October/early November. Since our best flights are in the spring, late March is even better, but Nov. 8 would be right in our best fall window.

I also think the bird looks like a juvenile Goshawk.

 

[Jim M.]

Not sure a definitive ID can be made from these photos, but I don't see any reason to believe this is not a large, female Cooper's Hawk, which is of course more common. While I agree the time of year is fine for Goshawk, the lack of streaking/spotting below the belly, and no apparent supercilium, are not right for Goshawk. Wings look fairly long and narrow, also suggestive of Cooper's. Goshawk flight photos I've been studying show a slightly wedge-shaped tail, so the tail shape isn't necessarily typical of either species, and is within the range of variation of Cooper's.

 

[AdrianB73]

Tail shape is really not useful here. It's not completely spread out, and the angle for looking at it is awful. It's really impossible to tell whether or not the tail feathers are graduated in length.

It looks best for northern goshawk to me.

 

[Falcon76]

We have these in the U.K. The bulging trailing edges of the wings (picture 3) and the sheer size of the bird strongly suggest (to me at least) that this is indeed Accipiter gentilis - Northern Goshawk.

 

[Jim M.]

We have these in the U.K. The bulging trailing edges of the wings (picture 3) and the sheer size of the bird strongly suggest (to me at least) that this is indeed Accipiter gentilis - Northern Goshawk.

Here's a photo of Cooper's showing similar bulging secondaries:

http://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/coopers_hawk/id

Female Cooper's Hawk is larger than any of the UK accipiters other than Goshawk, so even if size could be accurately judged from these photos (which I doubt), comparative size assessments are not transferable from one continent to the other. Some female Cooper's can even be larger than a male Goshawk. Misidentifaction of Cooper's as Goshawks is widespread on this side of the pond.

 

[Jim M.]

Size is difficult to tell here. The pictures are good and if it were a Goshawk one should be able to see the white eye brow which adults and juveniles have. A Cooper's Hawk should have a rounded tail. I wonder if it is not a Sharp-shin with its square notched tail?

Bob

A Sharp-shinned also would tend to be more strongly marked below the belly, but probably should not be ruled out.

 

[RJP]

Just to clarify my previous post and give Jim a modicum of support here, I don't think this ID is near a slam-dunk. Although I would still give my vote to Goshawk, I think there is something to be said on the other side as well.

 

[Kratter]

The second shot looks perfect for Sharp-shinned Hawk. Shouldn't Goshawk show much more extensive white undertail coverts?

Andy