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western gull and raven??? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter scuba0095
- Start date
cavan wood
Well-known member
The corvid is an american crow judging from the size, shape, and call. Not sure about the gull.
Scott
Scott
Gentoo
Guest
The bird we hear calling is definitely a crow but the bird on the ground I think is a Raven. The gulls are 100% Western. Note the upright posture of the bird giving the long call without introductory mewing notes. The reason I say this is a raven is not only the shape of the corvid but it's size in comparison to the gulls. I see American Crows and Western Gulls every day 5 or 6 days a week at work and the Western Gull is clearly larger. This corvid looks to be about the same size.
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Gentoo
Guest
This is getting so old.
Do understand sarcastic one that Ravens in the Southern half of California (these are wymani western's) are smaller than those in...let's say Canada. From what I've heard American Crows may be slightly larger but that I'm not sure about.
They look like ravens to me judging from the bill that look thicker then crow bills.
Some ravens are smaller then other ravens There is what people call “Mountain Ravens” and they are a lot bigger then some of the other ravens. The ravens in the video look like the smaller sized ravens.
I’m not sure if mountain ravens are a different breed from the smaller ones? or they just grow bigger in different environments.
I couldn’t find any scientific info on the subject of ravens that’s just what we call them in Colorado.
Some ravens are smaller then other ravens There is what people call “Mountain Ravens” and they are a lot bigger then some of the other ravens. The ravens in the video look like the smaller sized ravens.
I’m not sure if mountain ravens are a different breed from the smaller ones? or they just grow bigger in different environments.
I couldn’t find any scientific info on the subject of ravens that’s just what we call them in Colorado.
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Gentoo
Guest
I agree with what you said. Ravens in this area of California are smaller than those elsewhere. I've other birders visiting here tell me that. The bill on this bird is a good clue as well. American Crows have small bill, smaller even than Carrion Crows of Europe as a group on here once informed me. Even it's scientific name reflects that.
There are several subspecies of Raven in North America. Somewhere on here, someone provided that information but I can't seem to find it now.
According to BNA 476 (http://bna.birds.cornell.edu/bna/species/476/articles/systematics), there are 4 subspecies of Raven in North America, with the 2 northern/eastern (Canada, Alaska, northeast lower 48 south to Georgia) being considerably larger than the other 2. Of the latter, the one found in California is slightly smaller than the one found in the interior west. According to the same source, there is also clinal variation on the usual north/south axis with northern birds regardless of subspecies tending to be bigger and heavier than southern
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Gentoo
Guest
Thank you so much for that! The Ravens here are larger than crows but not substantially larger as is seen elsewhere.
Edited to add:
When I was in Washington State years ago the Raven there were huge, we're talking turkeys!
In Colorado where I live we have 2 kinds of ravens one is about the size of a crow and one is huge.
The big one we call a Mountain Raven the mostly spend there time in the mountains and eat dead deer and animals like that. They make a lot more different sounds very deep sounds from there throaths like grrochh.. rrrruuucctttt . They are very good at soaring also like vultures they ride around on the thermals.
I have seen both kinds side by side with crows also. The Mountain Ravens come to the foothills also and share food sources with the regular Ravens and the Crows.
A while back I saw a mountain Raven in the grocery store parking lot and it was looking at something very seriously so I went over there and it was a brand new bic lighter, so I took it the Raven seemed mad but he has no use for it.
Cool birds, they also spy on you when you are camping when you leave your camp they will come and walk around and look for stuff to steal. I had a car with tinted windows a few years ago and they couldn’t see inside and sometimes I would sit in it and watch them walk around camp and play with things.
Neat birds they have very big personalities.
The big one we call a Mountain Raven the mostly spend there time in the mountains and eat dead deer and animals like that. They make a lot more different sounds very deep sounds from there throaths like grrochh.. rrrruuucctttt . They are very good at soaring also like vultures they ride around on the thermals.
I have seen both kinds side by side with crows also. The Mountain Ravens come to the foothills also and share food sources with the regular Ravens and the Crows.
A while back I saw a mountain Raven in the grocery store parking lot and it was looking at something very seriously so I went over there and it was a brand new bic lighter, so I took it the Raven seemed mad but he has no use for it.
Cool birds, they also spy on you when you are camping when you leave your camp they will come and walk around and look for stuff to steal. I had a car with tinted windows a few years ago and they couldn’t see inside and sometimes I would sit in it and watch them walk around camp and play with things.
Neat birds they have very big personalities.
Gentoo
Guest
My usual observations with the larger gulls (that is Western and Glaucous-Winged) is that these gulls are usually more aggressive than the Ravens. Herring Gulls seem more willing to back down though. Ring-Billed, Heermann's and California Gulls don't even bother trying to fight a Raven. These are lucky when they get passed crows.
I took a pic of one of the smaller common ones the other week (it is the one posted) it is a slightly bigger than a average crow, it seems like a common raven from looking at Sibley but it could possibly be a Chihuahuan. I live in Boulder and a lot of times we do get species that are not supposed to be this far north.
The Mountain Ravens are bigger and the have a bigger forehead and a bigger throat then then one in the pic. I will try to get a pic of one.
I couldn’t get access to the above link with the 4 different species of raven. I am interested in look at some info on that the book I have only has the common and the Chihuahuan.
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Gentoo
Guest
I took a pic of one of the smaller common ones the other week (it is the one posted) it is a slightly bigger than a average crow, it seems like a common raven from looking at Sibley but it could possibly be a Chihuahuan. I live in Boulder and a lot of times we do get species that are not supposed to be this far north.
The Mountain Ravens are bigger and the have a bigger forehead and a bigger throat then then one in the pic. I will try to get a pic of one.
I couldn’t get access to the above link with the 4 different species of raven. I am interested in look at some info on that the book I have only has the common and the Chihuahuan.
it certainly doesn't look too like a Chihuahuan to me. It still has that Common Raven shape and bill. Looks very much like the ones I see in Southern California.
I doing some research on these bigger mountain ravens I am think they possibly could be c. principalis. But I will try to dig up some more info and get some pics and put it on another thread.
I am getting away from the crow vs gull, thread subject. So on that subject I have seen a few crow vs gull fights in parking lots over food, seems like the gulls usually out number the crows. I saw a even number fight before but I can’t remember who was more aggressive and got the food.
I am getting away from the crow vs gull, thread subject. So on that subject I have seen a few crow vs gull fights in parking lots over food, seems like the gulls usually out number the crows. I saw a even number fight before but I can’t remember who was more aggressive and got the food.
Chato
Well-known member
I've seen many such interactions between Ravens and Gulls, and the Ravens never seems to work up a sweat. The Gulls are completely intimidated at the onset. These include every speecies but the Greater Blacked Backed Gull. I've never seen them interact with Ravens, one way or the other.
These were in Brooklyn, where there are not supposed to be Ravens...
On the other hand, the smaller Crows and Gull interactions I've seen up-state, had a much more mixed outcome.
Dave
