-
Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.
Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
Wagtail at Conwy RSPB, Wales (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter marcbuzzard
- Start date
NickPatel92
Well-known member
Yellow wagtail form "Iberiae" from me.
bitterntwisted
Graham Howard Shortt
From BBRC at http://www.bbrc.org.uk/Riact.pdf
"‘Spanish Wagtail’ M. f. iberiae
This taxon is not on the British List. An extremely detailed claim, which included high-quality illustrations
but which lacked voice details and photographs, has been assessed by BBRC and BOURC; a first
for Britain will require all key characters to be covered, including voice. Intergrades are a potential
problem but some apparent flava can also show quite extensive white on the throat and could be an
iberiae pitfall. (Dubois 2001a, 2003; Dubois & Roy 2003; Alström & Mild 2003;Winters 2006b)"
"‘Spanish Wagtail’ M. f. iberiae
This taxon is not on the British List. An extremely detailed claim, which included high-quality illustrations
but which lacked voice details and photographs, has been assessed by BBRC and BOURC; a first
for Britain will require all key characters to be covered, including voice. Intergrades are a potential
problem but some apparent flava can also show quite extensive white on the throat and could be an
iberiae pitfall. (Dubois 2001a, 2003; Dubois & Roy 2003; Alström & Mild 2003;Winters 2006b)"
marcbuzzard
Well-known member
The call is much harsher than Yellow Wagtail, being coarser, but also gives a 'buzzing' type call. It is associating with a 'flavissima' Yellow Wagtail and the calls are quite different. I was out in the Coto Donana a few weeks ago along with the assistant warden of the Conwy reserve and the finder of this bird Rob Sandham and we have all commented how similar the call and look of this bird is to the one's we had out there.
The bird is still present this evening and showing well on the reserve's islands and causeway.
The bird is still present this evening and showing well on the reserve's islands and causeway.
rob stoff
Well-known member
sounds very promising then, worth reporting to the information services as a probable iberiae I guess, more pics and a recording would be good.
Rob
jogresh
Bimble and patch
An interesting bird! It was phoned in yesterday as a probable Iberian after a good grilling and a quick look in the books. Not sure if the news was put out as such though. Difficult to rule out hybrids which although numerically are vastly outnumbered still need considering...However it seems that iberiae (like most Yellow wagtail taxa it seems) are quite variable and after further views today, more homework, and image searching on the net i feel this could well be within normal variation of iberiae.
Cheers.
Cheers.
jogresh
Bimble and patch
Most do i believe, some appear not to.
Taken in Spain:
http://www.cornwall-birding.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/iberian_yellow_wagtail.jpg
Apparently a very variable race!
Taken in Spain:
http://www.cornwall-birding.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/iberian_yellow_wagtail.jpg
Apparently a very variable race!
JANJ
Well-known member
It does in fact look like iberiae (Spanish Yellow Wagtail), but beware flava intergrades with iberiae and cinereocapilla.
One of the key characters is - not just a white throat, but the sharp border between throat and yellow breast, which seems to be the case here. Usually darker blue-grey head - with no, or less white eye-ring under the eye and has clean grey ear-coverts. The supercilium in this individual matches iberiae but can as in cinereocapilla (Ashy-headed) be lacking in front of the eye.
Voice seems promising to.
JanJ
One of the key characters is - not just a white throat, but the sharp border between throat and yellow breast, which seems to be the case here. Usually darker blue-grey head - with no, or less white eye-ring under the eye and has clean grey ear-coverts. The supercilium in this individual matches iberiae but can as in cinereocapilla (Ashy-headed) be lacking in front of the eye.
Voice seems promising to.
JanJ
marcbuzzard
Well-known member
All replies much appreciated. Bird still present this evening and has gone to roost in reeds. More pictures here courtesy of Rob Sandham. The bird was calling this evening and is best described as a coarse sounding buzzy 'Yellow Wag', certainly different from the flavissima that was calling from another part of the reserve.
Attachments
Last edited:
jogresh
Bimble and patch
The info about the importance of calls is useful and interesting. The first time it called it struck me as different to Yellow, coarser or harsher, shorter and slightly more "explosive" for want of a better word and in all honesty reminded me of the birds in Donana 3 weeks ago HOWEVER wouldn't intergrades etc also call like this?
jogresh
Bimble and patch
Hi, thanx for the input. Would appreciate a bit of clarification, specifically what is established with the aid of the call? It could presumably exclude an unusual flava, but it couldn't separate out a cinereocapilla or intergrade could it? Song maybe, but a call?
Thanks in advance.
Thanks in advance.
bitterntwisted
Graham Howard Shortt
BWPi:
"(2) Contact-alarm calls. (a) Most commonly heard call differs slightly between races. In nominate flava, a sharp monosyllabic 'psie' (Bergmann and Helb 1982, which see for sonagrams), also rendered a monosyllabic 'psüip' with emphasis at end, or a disyllabic 'psiib', sometimes descending in pitch and similar to but sharper than Reed Bunting Emberiza schoeniclus (Dittberner and Dittberner 1984). Recording of flock of nominate flava in Egypt, April, suggests 'psssrt' (P J Sellar). In flavissima, a rather prolonged, shrill musical 'twee', often disyllabic (Witherby et al. 1938a, which see for variants), e.g. 'tsi-weep'; recordings show that given bird uses both monosyllabic and disyllabic variants during a bout of calling (P J Sellar). According to Czikeli and Knötzsch (Czikeli and Knötzsch 1979, which see for sonagrams), iberiae, cinereocapilla, and feldegg all harsher than nominate flava ('trie' instead of 'psijip')"
"(2) Contact-alarm calls. (a) Most commonly heard call differs slightly between races. In nominate flava, a sharp monosyllabic 'psie' (Bergmann and Helb 1982, which see for sonagrams), also rendered a monosyllabic 'psüip' with emphasis at end, or a disyllabic 'psiib', sometimes descending in pitch and similar to but sharper than Reed Bunting Emberiza schoeniclus (Dittberner and Dittberner 1984). Recording of flock of nominate flava in Egypt, April, suggests 'psssrt' (P J Sellar). In flavissima, a rather prolonged, shrill musical 'twee', often disyllabic (Witherby et al. 1938a, which see for variants), e.g. 'tsi-weep'; recordings show that given bird uses both monosyllabic and disyllabic variants during a bout of calling (P J Sellar). According to Czikeli and Knötzsch (Czikeli and Knötzsch 1979, which see for sonagrams), iberiae, cinereocapilla, and feldegg all harsher than nominate flava ('trie' instead of 'psijip')"
timwootton
Well-known member
Can't contribute to the technicalities - but a fabulous bird, well deserving of the attention. Keep at it guys!
