Unknown Duck - Hill Country Texas, USA (1 Viewer)

[Gordon W]

Once again I've photographed a bird that's probably in my field guide but I'm just not finding it. This time a duck. In addition to what's shown in the photo, it had bright orange legs.

 

[joshjenkinsshaw]

Some sort of escaped, farmyard type, hybridised duck, 'muckyduck'. You won't find it in a field guide, it's not a wild bird, and probably a mixture of a few sp's!

 

[shrikebirder]

Mallard x Indian Runner?

 

[Gordon W]

A hybrid. I suspected that might be the case. Muckyduck. I like that. |=)|

 

[Hotspur]

A hybrid. I suspected that might be the case. Muckyduck. I like that. |=)|

Not a hybrid in the traditional sense, more a mixture of domesticated mallards

 

[Gordon W]

Not a hybrid in the traditional sense, more a mixture of domesticated mallards

Okay. What's the difference between a mixture and hybrid then? Aren't they synonymous?

 

[jimmyg]

Yes, they are!

 

[bitterntwisted]

A hybrid is a cross between two species. Since both parents of this bird have Mallard as a wild ancestor they are the same species and this is not a hybrid.

Graham

 

[fugl]

It's a wild-type Mallard x domestic Mallard cross. Not a hybrid (only one species involved) but a mixture of 2 or more breeds (like a mongrel dog or a dog x wolf or coyote cross).

 

[London Birder]

Looks like a Campbell-type domesticated Mallard, this link is useful for putting names to some of the forms often seen on duck ponds etc ... enjoy.

http://10000birds.com/manky-mallards-domestic-feral-or-just-plain-odd-mallards.htm

 

[Gordon W]

Looks like a Campbell-type domesticated Mallard, this link is useful for putting names to some of the forms often seen on duck ponds etc ... enjoy.

http://10000birds.com/manky-mallards-domestic-feral-or-just-plain-odd-mallards.htm

Fascinating page there, Des. Thanks. One of them there actually looks very similar to the bird here.

And thanks to all for the information. So much to learn. :eek!:

 

[fugl]

Looks like a Campbell-type domesticated Mallard, this link is useful for putting names to some of the forms often seen on duck ponds etc ... enjoy.

http://10000birds.com/manky-mallards-domestic-feral-or-just-plain-odd-mallards.htm

Very useful link--thanks for posting it.

 

[London Birder]

very welcome guys.

 

[cavan wood]

It's a wild-type Mallard x domestic Mallard cross. Not a hybrid (only one species involved) but a mixture of 2 or more breeds (like a mongrel dog or a dog x wolf or coyote cross).

Agree with mallard (wild) x mallard (domestic) = one species = no hybrid; but, wolves, coyotes, and dogs are three different species. In fact NA has two species of wolves (red and grey). The mongrel dog analogy works though.
Just splitting hairs.

Scott

 

[Hotspur]

Agree with mallard (wild) x mallard (domestic) = one species = no hybrid; but, wolves, coyotes, and dogs are three different species. In fact NA has two species of wolves (red and grey). The mongrel dog analogy works though.
Just splitting hairs.

Scott

Of course that all depends on which taxonomy you follow. Although coyote and wolf are different there are plenty of ppl that would lump red/grey wolf and dog.

 

[fugl]

Agree with mallard (wild) x mallard (domestic) = one species = no hybrid; but, wolves, coyotes, and dogs are three different species. In fact NA has two species of wolves (red and grey). The mongrel dog analogy works though.
Just splitting hairs.

Scott

Right, fair enough--coyotes definitely comprise a separate species from dogs & wolves & should be left out of the equation. But, to split hairs in my turn, the gray wolf (Canis lupus) is ancestral to the dog & the relationship of the 2 is an exact analogy to the wild mallard/domestic mallard relationship. Red wolves are another fairly recent offshoot of the same ancestral stock & whether they should be considered separate species from gray wolves (& dogs) is controversial. As far as I know all 4 clades--coyotes, dogs, the 2 wolves--are completely inter-fertile, as are the offspring of any & all crosses between them.

 

[cavan wood]

....But, to split hairs in my turn, the gray wolf (Canis lupus) is ancestral to the dog & the relationship of the 2 is an exact analogy to the wild mallard/domestic mallard relationship.

You are absolutely right. I had forgotten that dogs were Canis lupus familiaris, not just Canis familiaris.

Red wolves are another fairly recent offshoot of the same ancestral stock & whether they should be considered separate species from gray wolves (& dogs) is controversial. As far as I know all 4 clades--coyotes, dogs, the 2 wolves--are completely inter-fertile, as are the offspring of any & all crosses between them.

I'm not sure that part of the argument works, as then I don't think we would be able to use the term "hybrid" for any of the crosses between mallards, blacks, mexicans, mottled, etc.

It's rather a plastic notion the idea of species isn't it?

Scott

p.s. I see at least some dictionaries define hybrid as a cross between "breeds" as well as species and genera. So I guess technically yuckducks ARE hybrids, but I agree that in the traditional sense they are not.

 

[fugl]

p.s. I see at least some dictionaries define hybrid as a cross between "breeds" as well as species and genera. So I guess technically yuckducks ARE hybrids, but I agree that in the traditional sense they are not.

I think we're probably on the same page here. As you say, the terminology is not as cut-and-dried as it could be. Getting back to "yuck ducks", they're second I think only to Cooper's/Sharp-shinned Hawks in number of appearances on the Bird Identification Q&A forum The word "hybrid" is almost always introduced at some point in these postings &, as here, invariably ends up shot down on the grounds that inter-breed crosses are not "true" hybrids. One reason I think that the distinction is maintained so fiercely in these threads, is that true hybrids between full species are a lot more common among waterfowl than among other birds. And, of course, it gives pedants like myself something to do.