Two people break 10,000 species, and on the same day? Can it be? (2 Viewers)

[mjh73]

The cognitive dissonance of statements like 'its only natural', and 'least disruptive option' is why I hate birders sometimes.

Let's not kid ourselves
Tape luring is unnatural, because it's a big stupid human playing a recording
Tape luring is disturbing as the bird may be vigilant anyways, but it won't be arcing up to go and find the (artificial) intruder. Whether that impact is material or not we don't know and as birders don't care (enough) but supposing there is no impact is nonsense. We do it to get a reaction the bird would not otherwise of had and that consumes energy it would not otherwise of had to.
And 'less disruptive than clattering through the undergrowth'..... maybe just don't go clattering through the undergrowth?

In 3 trips to S.Am the times I have gone off into the dense bushes I can count on 1 hand, with (depending on the guide) generally sparing / targetted playback. Seen about 1050 birds, heard only about a dozen.
The only off track experience I can recall was Hooded Antpitta which was calling (no playback) and we quietly and carefully tracked it and watched as it sang away. One of my best ever birding experiences.

 

[Andy Adcock]

I think one of my issues is that for a lot of people playback is a first resort to see a bird. Not a last resort.

Have you tried seeing Pittas, Antpittas, Wren Babblers or Tapaculos without using a tape?

There are many other examples where you simply won't see a bird without using a tape, simple as that.

What about the baited blinds that are so popular now and without which the likes of Bulwer's Pheasant would never be seen, I presume those birds are tape lured to bring them in?

 

[mjh73]

Have you tried seeing Pittas, Antpittas, Wren Babblers or Tapaculos without using a tape?

Yes

 

[Andy Adcock]

Yes

And?

I can tell you from experience, you'd be extremely lucky (outside of Australia where the Pittas are easier to see) to see any of the Asian Pittas with no tape

 

[cajanuma]

The cognitive dissonance of statements like 'its only natural', and 'least disruptive option' is why I hate birders sometimes.

Let's not kid ourselves
Tape luring is unnatural, because it's a big stupid human playing a recording
Tape luring is disturbing as the bird may be vigilant anyways, but it won't be arcing up to go and find the (artificial) intruder. Whether that impact is material or not we don't know and as birders don't care (enough) but supposing there is no impact is nonsense. We do it to get a reaction the bird would not otherwise of had and that consumes energy it would not otherwise of had to.
And 'less disruptive than clattering through the undergrowth'..... maybe just don't go clattering through the undergrowth?

Just the fact of being on a trail causes quite a bit of disturbance, you'll be flushing plenty of birds you never knew were there, and many others will alter their activities, so pretending that birding can be done with zero disturbance to birds is a pipe dream. If we accept the fact that the very act of birding causes disturbance, then yes I think judicious use of playback can keep that disturbance to a relative minimum.

 

[pbjosh]

In 3 trips to S.Am the times I have gone off into the dense bushes I can count on 1 hand, with (depending on the guide) generally sparing / targetted playback. Seen about 1050 birds, heard only about a dozen.

Genuine question - did you ID or get an ID from your guide for everything you heard and still manage to see 99%?

I can make three trips to three different locations in S America and see well over 1000 species without a lot of effort. But if I count everything I hear, I will not see anywhere near 99% of what I ID by ear, even with the use of playback. So maybe I'm just a shit birder in comparison or maybe your metric is a bit flawed?

I don't mean this to be a competition or sound haughty in the least but I have spent a lot of time birding all over S America as well as living there for about a decade, and know most of the other people who have spent a very long time birding there - you kind of can't help but crossing paths. And all things considered, at the end of the day, most birders and guides end up using playback for the same species.

Yeah you can go see some Antpittas at feeders and yeah everyone lucks into some good birds without playback but no one has seen a good proportion of the owls, antbirds, antpittas, antthrushes, tapaculos, tinamous, nightjars, and puffbirds without some of that "generally targeted" playback

 

[Andy Adcock]

Yeah you can go see some Antpittas at feeders and yeah everyone lucks into some good birds without playback but no one has seen a good proportion of the owls, antbirds, antpittas, antthrushes, tapaculos, tinamous, nightjars, and puffbirds without some of that "generally targeted" playback

I've only seen five Antpittas but did, genuinely, jam on to one of them (Scaled at Tapanti). Puffbirds, seen about five of the commoner ones, all found accidentally as they just sat quietly on branches, in Costa Rica, my wife went in to the bushes to pee, looked up to see two were watching her

 

[mjh73]

Genuine question - did you ID or get an ID from your guide for everything you heard and still manage to see 99%?

Interesting point.

My first 'trip' was not really birding, was volunteering on some research for a few weeks. I was in the field on my own or with another a lot of the time and probably heard and did not ID, and did not pester my local colleague for ID, a few things that obviously sit outside the number I stated.

Of the remainder, I don't recall hearing many things that we were NOT told what the call was and subsequently connected with, with or without playback 🤔
But I'm sure there were things in the soundscape we missed!

 

[Farnboro John]

Just the fact of being on a trail causes quite a bit of disturbance, you'll be flushing plenty of birds you never knew were there, and many others will alter their activities, so pretending that birding can be done with zero disturbance to birds is a pipe dream. If we accept the fact that the very act of birding causes disturbance, then yes I think judicious use of playback can keep that disturbance to a relative minimum.

Exactly. You can't put a probe into a system without changing the system, the problem with all experimental science (see Schrodinger's Cat - or don't ).

John

 

[MJB]

Exactly. You can't put a probe into a system without changing the system, the problem with all experimental science (see Schrodinger's Cat - or don't ).

John

You're going all quantum on us, John...!

Another aspect, photon/electron quantum tunnelling, initiates a reaction below the minimum energy level required to initiate that reaction - that, could be interpreted as removing a virtual probe from a system to change the functioning of that system!

That could play merry hell with the Schrödinger validity criteria for the totals achieved counting birds...
MJB

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

This thread has now made the Guardian:

How birdwatching’s biggest record threw its online community into chaos

In late 2023, Peter Kaestner was about to log his 10,000th bird species seen in the wild. Then Jason Mann showed up

www.theguardian.com

 

[Andy Adcock]

This thread has now made the Guardian:

How birdwatching’s biggest record threw its online community into chaos

In late 2023, Peter Kaestner was about to log his 10,000th bird species seen in the wild. Then Jason Mann showed up

www.theguardian.com

My biggest takeaway from that was the 'the now defunct Surfbirds', ' SurfBirds.com became unstable in the midst of the race,' I had hundreds of good pics on there.

 

[temmie]

This thread has now made the Guardian:

How birdwatching’s biggest record threw its online community into chaos

In late 2023, Peter Kaestner was about to log his 10,000th bird species seen in the wild. Then Jason Mann showed up

www.theguardian.com

We're famous!

Now if only Peter takes Dusky Tetraka off his list, we're all good!

 

[opisska]

I love the modern journalism where you just report on what you read on birdforum

 

[Dave Ball]

I love the modern journalism where you just report on what you read on birdforum

Come on, there are worse sources 😯

 

[DMW]

We're famous!

Now if only Peter takes Dusky Tetraka off his list, we're all good!

😑

 

[DMW]

What about the baited blinds that are so popular now and without which the likes of Bulwer's Pheasant would never be seen, I presume those birds are tape lured to bring them in?

Most of these birds are habituated to the food put out in front of the hide and don't need to be taped-in.

 

[temmie]

Most of these birds are habituated to the food put out in front of the hide and don't need to be taped-in.

Moreover: before going into these hides, it is often stressed that taping is strictly forbidden as it would confuse / agitate the birds which is very much undesired when you could have a bird that is very calm and thus enables photographers to do their thing without too much motion blur.

 

[Farnboro John]

Not abroad (though it will be for many of our correspondents): the legendary and much missed Colin the Cuckoo was attracted only incidentally by food being put out for Redstarts. He saw it because the location was within the core of his territory. It was only once he was already habituated that the food started to be thought of as primarily for him, though the site remained a good one for photographing habituated Redstarts.

John

 

[Paul Chapman]

Photography, hides, habituation, etc.... A topic dominated by absolute statements and Twitter word limits. I have very little experience of such things but I have certainly seen habituated birds responding to aural signals. Either play back or names being called to alert them to 'feeding time'. I have also seen birds following people as they walk to the hides/blinds as the seagull follows the trawler because it knows fishes will be thrown to quote the great philosopher, actor, singer and martial arts specialist.

I have also seen mixed subspecies groups of birds where clearly wild birds had been supplemented by birds from captivity. Sometimes even by some local conservation organisations that are unaware of such complexities.

But in general, hides/blinds are about quiet and birds being comfortable whilst taking advantage of safe spaces for bathing, drinking or feeding and personally, I find such privileged close views magical even if I am sweating and being eaten by insects.

In reality, this is all part of the picture. It does not make me feel comfortable but I am sure that anything that can be done to value birds in the wild and not as part of the cagebird trade and in captivity and singing competitions is a positive thing...

Pics attached - Red-whiskered Bulbul (in a cage outside a coffee shop as we headed towards southern Thailand) and a "hide" overlooking a bathing pool at Phu Suan Sai National Park, Thailand. Photographers sit for hours in pretty challenging conditions for a 2 minute show of the star species hopefully every afternoon in a four hour session. Also sadly a couple of attachments from papers/articles on the cagebird trade in Asia. As you travel, you become conscious of distributions of birds like White-rumped Shama and Red-whiskered Bulbul affected by areas where trapping is still prevalent. Such birds are even trapped out of feeding sites and the owners of such sites and blinds see some species disappearing.

Any way. I cannot even conceive really the effort made to see 10,000 pictures whether birds are tape lured, fed, habituated or not.

All the best

Paul