Thailand, Phu Hin Rong Kla NP - maybe a Blue Rock Thrush or ...? (3 Viewers)

[Bertus]

Februari 16th 2023 in the NationalPark. Mountain, steep cliff. The face is a bit dark... I have seen more Blue Rock Thrush but more clear. I put up the colour in the middle photo. I am not so sure with this one. Flycatchers can be blue too. Anybody familiar...? Tnx for all the help

 

[Andy Adcock]

Seems to have a whiteish throat unless that's the light, White-throated Rock Thrush?

I saw this species in Vietnam and it was in exactly, the same pose on a small, tree.

 

[Butty]

Seems to have a whiteish throat, White-throated Rock Thrush?

If I believe the book, white-throated rock-thrush doesn't look like this, on various points. The OP's bird has bits of 'whitish' all over it, and I take them all to be photo-artifact: patches of reflected light, blown out by too much contrast, etc.
OP's bird is fine for blue rock thrush: structure, colour, contrasting blackish wing. In my opinion.

 

[Bertus]

Seems to have a whiteish throat, White-throated Rock Thrush?

I saw this species in Vietnam an it was in exactly, the same pose on a small, tree.

Tnx Andy. Yes that looks like that, a bit of white. But I find only pics of male WTRT with strong orange-brown front and I don't see that here. Not clear, but tnx again

 

[Harrybongo]

Hi. Looks OK for a Blue Rock Thrush, I think the white on the throat is just a light effect, which, is evident on the tail/nape/mantle etc.

 

[Andy Adcock]

If I believe the book, white-throated rock-thrush doesn't look like this, on various points. The OP's bird has bits of 'whitish' all over it, and I take them all to be photo-artifact: patches of reflected light, blown out by too much contrast, etc.
OP's bird is fine for blue rock thrush: structure, colour, contrasting blackish wing. In my opinion.

Can't argue with this but, the habitat looks a better fit for White-throated, what we can see that is.

 

[HouseCrow]

Limited live experience with philippensis, but in photo 2 it does look big headed, strong billed for blue rock

Are you sure it is a Blue?
No time now to dive into the matter, just asking

Cheers
G

 

[johnallcock]

Can't argue with this but, the habitat looks a better fit for White-throated, what we can see that is.

It's hard to judge what the surrounding habitat is, all we can see is a part of one tree. And the original post says "Mountain, steep cliff".
My experience of White-throated Rock Thrush is that they tend to be in forest, below the canopy, often perching quite close to the ground. I remember when I saw my first being confused that a forest bird would be a "Rock" Thrush.

With uniform blue plumage, dark wings, pale tips to greater coverts, black legs and longish bill, this looks fine for a Blue Rock Thrush to me, presumably pandoo.

 

[Andy Adcock]

It's hard to judge what the surrounding habitat is, all we can see is a part of one tree. And the original post says "Mountain, steep cliff".
My experience of White-throated Rock Thrush is that they tend to be in forest, below the canopy, often perching quite close to the ground. I remember when I saw my first being confused that a forest bird would be a "Rock" Thrush.

With uniform blue plumage, dark wings, pale tips to greater coverts, black legs and longish bill, this looks fine for a Blue Rock Thrush to me, presumably pandoo.

I can't tell that it's blue tbh.

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

I'm not sure why all this discussion, it seems quite obvious to me that is a regular male Monticola solitarius pandoo wintering commonly in Thailand.

 

[Bertus]

It's hard to judge what the surrounding habitat is, all we can see is a part of one tree. And the original post says "Mountain, steep cliff".
My experience of White-throated Rock Thrush is that they tend to be in forest, below the canopy, often perching quite close to the ground. I remember when I saw my first being confused that a forest bird would be a "Rock" Thrush.

With uniform blue plumage, dark wings, pale tips to greater coverts, black legs and longish bill, this looks fine for a Blue Rock Thrush to me, presumably pandoo.

Tnx to all.

Phu Hin Rong Kla NP is famous for it's geological formations. The tree was on the edge of a steep cliff. I add a picture of that cliff of one minute before (8319). They warn for sudden depth there, since there is no fence... and it is really deep. All of that you find here: Phu Hin Rong Kla National Park. The picture with Sunset view from viewpoints on that page gives a good impression of the landscape.

Then I read under Blue Rock Thrush in Robson's guide: HABITAT - rocky areas, frequents cliffs, up to 1830 m. That is no coincidence I think, at Januari 25 I spotted a similar bird in Pha Taem NP, also a huge wall with cliffs and rocks.

The site also boasts an impressive list of 206 bird species, found in the park (including 15 Bulbuls !). In that list I just found Blue Whistling Thrush under Old World Flycatchers, together with Blue Rock Thrush. Could that be an alternative? It is a lot bigger, I found that one too later last year, size is difficult, still I think I could distinguish these two on size and colour. Not a Blue-whistling Thrush, too small all over, beak not strong yellow but dark, tail much smaller/narrower.

I do not find the White-throated in this list of over 200 species, and there seems to be no chestnut lores or rump and underparts, typical for the White-throated, on my photo's. When I click on the species name (Blue Rock Thrush) in the NP website I find one picture that gives almost the same angle etc. as my second pic (see under).

Then I add some examples of the Blue Rock Trush I spotted in Pha Taem NP. I guess everybody agrees on the ID for that one? The light was better...

Concluding:
Pic 1 - geological formation/cliff in Phu Hin Rong Kla NP
Pic 2 - example of male Monticola Solitarius pandoo, breeding in the same NP (NP photo)
Pic 3 - a cut-out of 8323 above, in which I put up the colours and light in order to show colour present (blueish, bit brownish, no chestnut)
Pic 4 - same but colours and light less strong, you might also have a look at the original, not altered picture 8323 above and zoom
Pic 5 to 8 - examples of a (breeding?) male in Pha Taem NP I found before, but this one comes closer to a Chestnut-bellied RT, still a Blue Rock Thrush.

I guess Robson meant there is Ssp Pandoo, Philippensis and Madoci of Monticola Solitarius in Thailand. And the male Pandoo is blue almost all over when it breeds, while the Philippensis has a chestnut breast (like White-throated and Chestnut-bellied), breeding or not breeding, see his pictures. Then perhaps my first bird in Phu Hin Rong Kla was a Pandoo (all blue), while the other one in Pha Taem was a Philippensis, correct?

 

[Andy Adcock]

I looked at Blue Whistlingthrush and dismissed it.

 

[Bertus]

Valerie, could you perhaps comment on this: I guess Robson meant there is Ssp Pandoo, Philippensis and Madoci of Monticola Solitarius in Thailand. And the male Pandoo is blue almost all over when it breeds, while the Philippensis has a chestnut breast (like White-throated and Chestnut-bellied), breeding or not breeding, see his pictures. Then perhaps my first bird in Phu Hin Rong Kla was a Pandoo (all blue), while the other one in Pha Taem was a Philippensis, correct? I mean we see almost complete blue and we see half chestnut. My first pictures were not very good, that is why everybody had to look very well. Tnx

 

[Bertus]

Hm now I see, the pictures got mixed up at uploading. Why does it do that? Never experienced that before. Now the legenda is:

Pic 1, 2 - examples of a (breeding?) male in Pha Taem NP I found before, but this one comes closer to a Chestnut-bellied RT, still a Blue Rock Thrush.
Pic 3 - a cut-out of 8323 above, same as next, but colours and light less strong, you might also have a look at the original, not altered picture 8323 above and zoom
Pic 4 - a cut-out of 8323 above, in which I put up the colours and light strongly in order to show colour present (blueish, bit brownish, no chestnut)
Pic 5 - example of male Monticola Solitarius pandoo, breeding in the same NP (NP photo)
Pic 6 - geological formation/cliff in Phu Hin Rong Kla NP
Pic 7, 8 - examples of a (breeding?) male in Pha Taem NP I found before, but this one comes closer to a Chestnut-bellied RT, still a Blue Rock Thrush.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Hm now I see, the pictures got mixed up at uploading. Why does it do that? Never experienced that before. Now the legenda is:

Pic 1, 2 - examples of a (breeding?) male in Pha Taem NP I found before, but this one comes closer to a Chestnut-bellied RT, still a Blue Rock Thrush.
Pic 3 - a cut-out of 8323 above, same as next, but colours and light less strong, you might also have a look at the original, not altered picture 8323 above and zoom
Pic 4 - a cut-out of 8323 above, in which I put up the colours and light strongly in order to show colour present (blueish, bit brownish, no chestnut)
Pic 5 - example of male Monticola Solitarius pandoo, breeding in the same NP (NP photo)
Pic 6 - geological formation/cliff in Phu Hin Rong Kla NP
Pic 7, 8 - examples of a (breeding?) male in Pha Taem NP I found before, but this one comes closer to a Chestnut-bellied RT, still a Blue Rock Thrush.

Nobody knows why it does this, in future, to avoid confusion, use the last, three numbers which your camera has given to each shot, not, 1,2,3 as they are not guaranteed to stay in that order.

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

Ok Valerie, agreed, but could you perhaps comment on this: I guess Robson meant there is Ssp Pandoo, Philippensis and Madoci of Monticola Solitarius in Thailand. And the male Pandoo is blue almost all over when it breeds, while the Philippensis has a chestnut breast (like White-throated and Chestnut-bellied), breeding or not breeding, see his pictures. Then perhaps my first bird in Phu Hin Rong Kla was a Pandoo (all blue), while the other one in Pha Taem was a Philippensis, correct? I mean we see almost complete blue and we see half chestnut. My first pictures were not very good, that is why everybody had to look very well. Tnx

I'm Valéry. I see 3 photos off all blue individuals, very typical Blue Rockthrush, none with chestnut breast, but seemingly I'm missing something on this publication.

 

[johnallcock]

The birds in photos 4250, 4248 and 4254 have some chestnut on the belly. This is not as extensive as I usually see on male philippensis, with a lot of blue on the breast and flanks, and I think these are probably intergrades between philippensis and pandoo.
Chestnut-bellied is similar to philippensis but the chestnut is more extensive (only the throat is blue, but on philippensis the breast is also blue) and on Chestnut-bellied the face is darker, contrasting with brighter blue on the crown, the tail is longer, and the bill is shorter/deeper.

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

The birds in photos 4250, 4248 and 4254 have some chestnut on the belly. This is not as extensive as I usually see on male philippensis, with a lot of blue on the breast and flanks, and I think these are probably intergrades between philippensis and pandoo.
Chestnut-bellied is similar to philippensis but the chestnut is more extensive (only the throat is blue, but on philippensis the breast is also blue) and on Chestnut-bellied the face is darker, contrasting with brighter blue on the crown, the tail is longer, and the bill is shorter/deeper.

I wonder where are these photos you are talking about. I see 3 pandoo

 

[Bertus]

I wonder where are these photos you are talking about. I see 3 pandoo

Hi Valery, tnx a lot. But don't tell me you don't see the other serie of photo's halfway above. One time a ID request of mine got lost, also quite strange. But yes I should use the camera numbering:

4248 copy, 4250 copy, 4252 copy, 4254 copy all on cliff in Pha Taem NP, on the Mekong, Lao border, South-east Thailand. Same bird, Philippensis with Pandoo probably, as John proposes. A 'copy' is edited by me, so enlarged and more colour, light etc. These pic's are good enough.

8323 is a different bird on a cliff of Phu Hin Rong Kla NP, 650 km to the North-East, near Phitsanulok. It was my first request above. Original, not edited photo, can zoom and edit if you like, the light was not as good, more difficult to ID.

Then I edited 8323 and 8324 into 8323 copy, 8323 copy 2 and 8323 copy 3 and 8324 copy, obviously to get a better look at this bird. And most agree that this is all male Pandoo, since there is only blue with darker wings, pale tips to greater coverts etc. as John mentioned.

Habitat in both cases is typical for Rock Thrush following Robson's description.

I added a picture above, of what seems to be a pandoo Ssp., from the website of Phu Hin Rong Kla NP, named blue-rock-thrush w 1500.jpg. Looks very much like 8323 copy 3, that is why I added it. And I put a pic of the cliff in Phu Hin Rong Kla, obviously which one...

Now I add some other pics, taken from the high cliff on the westbank of the Mekong in Pha Taem NP. The other side is Laos. Both NP's harbor some of the most beautiful geological formations I have seen in Thailand. Awesome views too. On the plateau on 4219 I found the Blue Rock Thrush, plus Black-crested Bulbul, Pied Bushchat, Canary Flycatcher, Ornate and Purple Sunbird. Pha Taem has some prehistoric rock paintings as well.

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

Hi Valery, tnx a lot. But don't tell me you don't see the other serie of photo's halfway above. One time a ID request of mine got lost, also quite strange. But yes I should use the camera numbering:

4248 copy, 4250 copy, 4252 copy, 4254 copy all on cliff in Pha Taem NP, on the Mekong, Lao border, South-east Thailand. Same bird, Philippensis with Pandoo probably, as John proposes. A 'copy' is edited by me, so enlarged and more colour, light etc. These pic's are good enough.

8323 is a different bird on a cliff of Phu Hin Rong Kla NP, 650 km to the North-East, near Phitsanulok. It was my first request above. Original, not edited photo, can zoom and edit if you like, the light was not as good, more difficult to ID.

Then I edited 8323 and 8324 into 8323 copy, 8323 copy 2 and 8323 copy 3 and 8324 copy, obviously to get a better look at this bird. And most agree that this is all male Pandoo, since there is only blue with darker wings, pale tips to greater coverts etc. as John mentioned.

Habitat in both cases is typical for Rock Thrush following Robson's description.

I added a picture above, of what seems to be a pandoo Ssp., from the website of Phu Hin Rong Kla NP, named blue-rock-thrush w 1500.jpg. Looks very much like 8323 copy 3, that is why I added it. And I put a pic of the cliff in Phu Hin Rong Kla, obviously which one...

Now I add some other pics, taken from the high cliff on the westbank of the Mekong in Pha Taem NP. The other side is Laos. Both NP's harbor some of the most beautiful geological formations I have seen in Thailand. Awesome views too. On the plateau on 4219 I found the Blue Rock Thrush, plus Black-crested Bulbul, Pied Bushchat, Canary Flycatcher, Ornate and Purple Sunbird. Pha Taem has some prehistoric rock paintings as well.

I mean, before I commented ! Obivously I identified only birds published at the time I found the thread...