Swiftlets, Bali (1 Viewer)

[Trystan]

After some advice on separating black nest swiftlet from edible nest swiftlet from mossy nest swiftlet on Bali. Is black nest swiftlet the expected species in built up areas?

Similarly, glossy swiftlet from cave swiflet. I've attached a photo of the birds common around the hotel and am assuming they are glossy swiftlet.

Thanks

 

[Chlidonias]

as far as I'm aware there are no glossy swiflets on Bali, they are all cave swiftlets.

 

[chris butterworth]

Bali has Linchi linchi and Edible-nest fuciphaga The bird in the photo has a dark throat and pale belly, which is right for Linchi. Edible-nest has a pale throat merging into a dark belly. The Linchi taxon on Bali dedii has much darker throat, flanks and vent than the other taxa so is 'fairly easy' to pick out.

Chris

 

[Trystan]

Thanks both for the responses.

I got my bali checklist from avibase which has Bali down for both Cave (Collocalia linchi) and glossy (C. esculenta). It doesn't suggest glossy is rare or accidental so from your comments Chris, does this photo eliminate glossy as a possibility?

With regard to edible nest (Aerodramus fusciphagus), the confusion species, again according to the Avibase list, would be black nest swiflet (A. maximus)and mossy nest swiftlet (A. salangala).

To clarify, I had no issue separating the Aerodramus from the Collocalia. The issue is which Collocalia and which Aerodramus.

 

[viator]

Just checking, but my understanding is C. esculenta sumbawae is common from Lombok east and C. linchi is common on both Bali and Lombok is it generally agreed C.e. sumbawae doesn't cross the lombok strait?

 

[chris butterworth]

The distribution and taxonomy of Swiftlets is a bit of a nightmare but I was of the opinion that only linchi and fuciphaga were present on Bali, so they were the only two I considered, but both salangala and esculenta sumbawe are present on adjoining islands so there is no reason to suspect they wouldn't occur on Bali. maximus , as far as I know, still only occurs definitely as close as the western half of Java. The bird in the photo is in moult which makes it far more difficult but - if the outer primaries are fully grown and the tail is notched, not just growing the central feathers, then the blunt wing tip (with the outermost visible primary shorter than the next), noticeable notch in the tail, dark head and undertail coverts look right for esculenta . No chance of a photo of the upperparts I suppose, as esculenta is often noticeably glossy blue?

Chris

BTW I used scientific names because I hate "Cave" Swiftlet for linchi . Most swiftlets nest in caves.

C

 

[viator]

The distribution and taxonomy of Swiftlets is a bit of a nightmare but I was of the opinion that only linchi and fuciphaga were present on Bali, so they were the only two I considered, but both salangala and esculenta sumbawe are present on adjoining islands so there is no reason to suspect they wouldn't occur on Bali. maximus , as far as I know, still only occurs definitely as close as the western half of Java. The bird in the photo is in moult which makes it far more difficult but - if the outer primaries are fully grown and the tail is notched, not just growing the central feathers, then the blunt wing tip (with the outermost visible primary shorter than the next), noticeable notch in the tail, dark head and undertail coverts look right for esculenta . No chance of a photo of the upperparts I suppose, as esculenta is often noticeably glossy blue?

Chris

BTW I used scientific names because I hate "Cave" Swiftlet for linchi . Most swiftlets nest in caves.

C

My understanding is the same, was just checking if there was anything I wasn't aware of. As you say swiftlets in sth east asia as a whole seems all over the place and esculenta is recognized over a huge area so was just wondering if there was any new research or just an error on avibase's part.

 

[Trystan]

BTW I used scientific names because I hate "Cave" Swiftlet for linchi . Most swiftlets nest in caves.

C

No photo but I had these birds down to 50cm at times. They rarely showed any gloss but when they did it was more toward green than blue. I'm happy for them to be cave swifts but the reason I made the glossy swift assumption was because there were no caves in the area!

With regard to maxima, fuciphaga I have Craig Robson's birds of South east asia. In the habitat section maxima is listed as occuring in urban areas, not so with fuciphaga.

I first saw one of these species (or even germani?) in Thailand, Hua Hin, present in good numbers 2 weeks ago. I was hoping the urban area would clinch this in favour of maxima as I understood fusciphaga to nest in caves.

On arrival on Bali, I was still non the wiser as to being able to separate these and cannot discern whether the birds seen on Bali were maxima, fusciphaga or salangala. Again, they were present in good numbers so I'm not looking at one possible accidental bird, but if one species is dominant on the island then that will be what I saw. However if they fly in mixed flocks or have a prefered habitat, I could easily have seen more than one species and be unaware.

I hope this is clear, I appreciate your continued help with this!

 

[Trystan]

All the shots I have with swiftlets attached, including one from the back showing the greenish hue.

1st two pics are the linchi type, last pic was an accident during a scenery shot and is the fuciphaga type although for me it could be a peregrine from this shot.

 

[Trystan]

Quick bump on this before it slides into obscurity!

 

[chris butterworth]

The bird in the first photo looks rather blue to me, with slightly green scapulars. linchi always seems more oily green with little, or no colour on the primaries so esculenta is a distinct probability - based on the photos. As for there being no caves in the area, Swiftlets, like all Swifts, travel long distances to feed and on an island the size of Bali could, easily nest at one end but be found feeding at the other. Even though there has been a hell of a lot of work done on Swiftlets distribution and how many actual species there are needs a lot more doing - and as for field identification, let's just say "We're getting there - maybe".

Chris

 

[Trystan]

The bird in the first photo looks rather blue to me, with slightly green scapulars. linchi always seems more oily green with little, or no colour on the primaries so esculenta is a distinct probability - based on the photos. As for there being no caves in the area, Swiftlets, like all Swifts, travel long distances to feed and on an island the size of Bali could, easily nest at one end but be found feeding at the other. Even though there has been a hell of a lot of work done on Swiftlets distribution and how many actual species there are needs a lot more doing - and as for field identification, let's just say "We're getting there - maybe".

Chris

Not sure how much you can read into the photo to be honest. I'm hopeless when the birds are sat still so getting decent shots of these was not going to happen.

Your description of the oily green definitely coincides with my observations and I'm happy to go with cave swiftlet and leave the possibility of glossy also being present to somebody with more experience and skill than myself.

What is your source for fusciphaga and not maxima/salanga being on Bali, and do you have anything on the distribution in Thailand?

Thanks again

 

[snapperx5]

In Malaysia, I have seen farmers keep germain's swiftlets in barns/outbuildings, any chance of farmers doing the same in Bali?

No photo but I had these birds down to 50cm at times. They rarely showed any gloss but when they did it was more toward green than blue. I'm happy for them to be cave swifts but the reason I made the glossy swift assumption was because there were no caves in the area!
!

 

[Trystan]

In Malaysia, I have seen farmers keep germain's swiftlets in barns/outbuildings, any chance of farmers doing the same in Bali?

Germain's is not on the list for Bali, but could have been a potential species in Thailand although we didn't spend any time in agricultural areas. The birds were seen around Hua Hin.

In Thailand I had Asian palm swift, house swift and at least one type of swiftlet which I would lean towards black nest swiftlet.

In Bali, now confident of Cave swiftlet and leaning towards Edible nest swiftlet for the other species present from Chris' comments but I'm hoping that I can confirm this from distribution, since I'm not going to be able to do it from any ID features.

 

[chris butterworth]

I've been working from my field notes, 2nd ed Chantler and Driessens and a few papers I have. As far as Thailand is concerned, I've recorded esculenta cyanoptila is resident on the Isthmus of Kra, brevirostris is a winter visitor to most of the country with the very pale rumped nominate throughout and the darker rumped innominata in the south and the west of the country, along the Burmese border, has the small, rather variable rumped rogersi which may, or may not turn out to be another species. maxima is on the west coast of the Isthmus and germani on both Isthmus coasts and most islands which seems to agree with the literature (hopefully).

Chris

 

[Trystan]

I've been working from my field notes, 2nd ed Chantler and Driessens and a few papers I have. As far as Thailand is concerned, I've recorded esculenta cyanoptila is resident on the Isthmus of Kra, brevirostris is a winter visitor to most of the country with the very pale rumped nominate throughout and the darker rumped innominata in the south and the west of the country, along the Burmese border, has the small, rather variable rumped rogersi which may, or may not turn out to be another species. maxima is on the west coast of the Isthmus and germani on both Isthmus coasts and most islands which seems to agree with the literature (hopefully).

Chris

This would indicate that the swiftlet species I saw in Hua Hin, the east coast of the isthmus would be germani, while on Bali, the 2 swiftlet species seen were linchi and fusciphagus.

Thanks for persisting with this and getting back to me. Very much appriciated!

 

[cendrawasih]

Obviously Cave Swiflet, there are no Glossy Swiflet in Bali or Java. It's the most common swiflet, and maybe the most common bird in those island, and it more likes to fly very low to the ground, not like edible, black, or mossy-nest swiflet.
Greetings,

 

[cendrawasih]

If there are some list with Glossy swiflet in Bali, it probably rare or misidentified. it's common for newbie local birdwatcher to misidentifed Cave as Glossy Swiflet, as field Guide to the birds of Sumatra, Kalimantan, Java and Bali by Mc Kinnon, the most used field by local birdwatchers only draw Glossy Swiflet in it's page, while Cave Swiflet is only described by text behind.

 

[Trystan]

Obviously Cave Swiflet, there are no Glossy Swiflet in Bali or Java. It's the most common swiflet, and maybe the most common bird in those island, and it more likes to fly very low to the ground, not like edible, black, or mossy-nest swiflet.
Greetings,

Thanks Cendrawasih,

I didn't have a field guide for Indonesia, I used birds of south east asia, birds of australia, and patched together the missing species from avibase which seems to be inaccurate.

What is your experience of edible/black and mossy-nest on Bali?

 

[cendrawasih]

Thanks Cendrawasih, I didn't have a field guide for Indonesia, I used birds of
south east asia, birds of australia, and patched
together the missing species from avibase which
seems to be inaccurate. What is your experience of edible/black and mossy-
nest on Bali? Advertisement

You're Welcome Trystan!

Well, all of them are hard to tell. Some people said that Black-nest prefers shore area and lowland, while Edible-nest love higher altitude, however i've seen both of them in a same altitude near to sea level. I don't know about Mossy-nest, this species is completely unidentifiable except when you see it inside the nest, but it seems like they live in higher altitude with many moss around.
In fact, it's very hard to tell those 3 bird in the field, they have very similiar morphology and colour. The rump colour and notched tail sometimes are not enough, some Edible-nest have brownish rump that very similiar to Black-nest. I've put Black and Edible-nest to my list, but not about Mossy-nest, i haven't see this bird yet.