Swift, South of France (2 Viewers)

[Capercaillie71]

I took these photos last week in the south of France. I had earlier seen a very obvious Pallid Swift among Common Swifts, against the backdrop of a reedbed in overcast conditions. However, by the time I started trying to photograph them, the birds were flying a bit higher and the sun had come out, making colour differences more difficult to judge. I tried to concentrate on the birds that looked a bit paler and I think that these photos (which are all of the same bird) show some features consistent with Pallid Swift. However, I am not familiar with the species so would welcome any opinions.

 

[Capercaillie71]

Here are some further photos from the same site, which may or may not be the same bird.

 

[KenM]

All shots suggesting a good candidate...Obvious scalloping to the underparts, large throat area (although have seen this feature larger on a paler bird), and darker outer primaries contrasting with inner.

cheers

 

[Jan-Paul Charteris]

I'm only seeing Common in all of these to be honest

 

[cajanuma]

I would feel fairly confident calling them Pallids, with nicely scalloped underparts and contrasting wing pattern. Something about the ground color also says Pallid to me, although it's hard to put into words - more of a brown/dark tan tone than the sooty tone of Common.

 

[phil baber]

...although it's hard to put into words - more of a brown/dark tan tone than the sooty tone of Common.

"Milky-Brown" is my best description of Pallid ground colour. Especially when seen against a dark background.
Not saying either way on these birds. Just watching with interest...
These are great photos and serve to highlight the potential pitfalls between the 2 species, and the importance of light conditions, and background influence on viewing a potential Pallid subject, against its closest congener. Nice!B

In the meantime, have a look at these images...

http://www.birdforum.net/opus/Pallid_Swift

http://www.berksoc.org.uk/photographic_competition/2007/photo_comp_2007_action_swift.jpg

http://www.hawar-islands.com/blog/media/blogs/kuwait/P-Swift1.jpg

 

[Hotspur]

Looks like pallid to me with blunt wing tips, scalloping, mask, extensive throat patch. It looks quite dark but this would seem to be photographic effect - were they taken late in the day?

 

[redeyedvideo]

Common Swift for me, nothing to suggest Pallid, sorry. Common can show scalloping when see well. Here's one taken in Middle England.

 

[steve west]

Can't really say, I'm not much good at photos - prefer seeing the bird in "the feather" - but my overall impression is Common Swift.

Steve

 

[rosbifs]

common for me

 

[KenM]

As is always the case with these two species..It is a suite of features that should be taken into account...apart from the darker outer and paler inner primaries, as shown in pics.1,2,3,5,6, and 7, and the fairly easy to see scalloping on less than perfect photos...I should know! (with all due respect to Capercaillie's shots). Fast flying Swifts are not easy to 'sharp' image, that said the 'Boots No.7' eye-liner and pale head as shown in image 4, are in my opinion certainly complimentary to that required set of features.

 

[Capercaillie71]

Thanks for the comments so far. It's always reassuring when there is a difference of opinions - at least it means that the answer wasn't really obvious!

The features that I had thought were pro-pallid on some of these shots were (as others have mentioned): 1) the dark eye mask contrasting with a paler head (particularly in shots 1 and 4 in the first post), 2) the scalloping (also visible in shot 4 of the first post), 3) the contrast between pale secondaries, inner primaries & rump and darker outer primaries and mantle (particularly in the first shot in the second post).

The features that I thought went against pallid were that the bib might be a little small and the overall colouring may appear too dark. However, as Hotspur has said, I think that there may be an element of artefact there - these birds were photographed against a bright sky (they were taken at about 8.30am). Certainly the bird I had seen earlier against a dark background was strikingly pale compared with the common swifts around it, but of course that may not have been one of the birds that I later photographed.

 

[Parker]

These two are tricky, as we know, but at this time of the year with Juv Common's about it becomes more difficult. There was a juv Common missided as a Pallid on the Shetlands a few years ago about this time of year. Common for me too.

 

[Capercaillie71]

Thinking about the possible effect of the bright background on the colour of these birds, I have been playing around with the brightness of the images (the orginals were posted without any adjustment other than cropping).

Would anyone have had a different opinion if I had posted this photo?

 

[KenM]

Thinking about the possible effect of the bright background on the colour of these birds, I have been playing around with the brightness of the images (the orginals were posted without any adjustment other than cropping).

Would anyone have had a different opinion if I had posted this photo?

This image shouts Pallid to me...The very first Pallid that I saw, was in this country a long time ago, and overall was best described as milky brown, with the contrasting inner and outer primaries, and obvious white throat, compared against it's fellow Common Swift counterparts. Fast forward to the other two UK Pallids that I have seen Cliffe, Kent and Kessingland, Suffolk...I would not have been able to ID either! under the prevailing lighting conditions at the time of each observation.

 

[steve west]

Maybe, but doesn't look conclusive. Structural elements such as shallower tail fork and blunter wings could be considered, although assessment of these features seems to vary between photos. If I had to bet I would still go for Common, although I'm not beyond convincing otherwise!

 

[chris butterworth]

IMO Common - the wingtip looks too sharp and the trailing edge is lacking the slightly bulging inner primaries I associate with Pallid.

Chris

 

[Tib78]

Not sure there is a Pallid in there, this is really a difficult pair!
This bird for example: http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=337388&d=1311109009 looks much like a Common to me despite underparts scaling. The overall colorin looks too dark for Pallid and the underwings coverts are distincly darker than the inner primaries.

 

[Capercaillie71]

OK, thanks for all the comments and reasoning given.

This bird for example: http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=337388&d=1311109009 looks much like a Common to me despite underparts scaling. The overall colorin looks too dark for Pallid and the underwings coverts are distincly darker than the inner primaries.

Yes, that one is not at all convincing, but it may well be a different bird to all the others anyway.