I have two lots of blue tits raising chicks in my boxes,one set of parents are in and out with caterpillars from the oak tree but the other ones seem to be ignoring the oak and are taking sunflower hearts and small pieces of suet berry treat into the box.I am worried that this is bad for the chicks as i thought they needed caterpillars for moisture.If i take the feeders down this would affect the goldfinches and greenfinches who are here every day..I found some tiny green caterpillars on one of my flowers and put them on the table but they were ignored!!Any advice welcome.thanks
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Suitable blue tit food? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter tracy
- Start date
Did you watch last year's Springwatch with Bill Oddie on BBC? They had the same problem in one of their nestboxes - basically the parents just weren't very good parents and didn't bring their babies the right food, or often enough. They even set up a little table close to the box with mealworms or something similar on, which at first the parents ignored, although I think in the end they did twig on. Of course, the unfortunate result was that the nation watched day after day as baby after baby died. In the end I think only one or two of them fledged.
It sounds as though you might have a box with not very good or inexperienced parents. I wouldn't take your feeders down, because as you say, other birds are still benefitting from them. At this time of year, greenfinches in particular need the seed, as there is very little else for them to eat and they have a high mortality rate in late spring where there is no supplementary food.
It sounds as though you might have a box with not very good or inexperienced parents. I wouldn't take your feeders down, because as you say, other birds are still benefitting from them. At this time of year, greenfinches in particular need the seed, as there is very little else for them to eat and they have a high mortality rate in late spring where there is no supplementary food.
KnockerNorton
Well-known member
Florall, I woudn't put too much store by what Bill Oddie says - he's a comedian and a TV presenter, not an ornithologist or ecologist or authority on bird behaviour. Remember, he's basically a birdwatcher with no more science experience than the average bloke in a hide. He studied English at university, not Zoology.
The second pair aren't using the oak tree as that is in the first pair's territory, so they don't have access. The kind of thing you describe is common with suburban/urban Blue tit territories, as the birds are at artificially high densities due to the good artificial food supply in winter. The problem is that there isn't enough natural food to rear chicks. This is exactly the kind of situation I've got in my box at home, with the adults foraging in just 3 birch trees and a line of rose shrubs - basically all they have is aphids to feed the young on. They've started taking in sunflower hearts and also lard, but, as yu figured, the moisture content of these is so low that the chicks will die of dehydration if they start maxing out on it. Especially if the weather turns bad.
What Bill Oddie thought was 'inexperience' or 'bad parenting' on Springwatch last year, where the female kept placing a sunflower heart in a chick's gape, then taking it out for another one etc, is perfectly normal behaviour if you think about what they do with caterpillars - they squish them up and give each chick a little glug of the juice, so they all get a bit of food/moisture. That's clearly not going to work with sunflower hearts, but if it's all the blue tits have in their territory then they try it out of desperation. Blue tit territories of 1 pair per tennis court area works fine in woodland, as they all have trees dripping with caterpillars right outside the nest, but it doesn't work in suburbia where non-native trees/shrubs often don't have much food on them. They can keep 2 birds going throughout the year, but not an additonal 10 mouths in spring.
The only thing you can do, if you want to try and help, is to provide mini-mealworms, but this is expensive and will probably be raided by every passing starling and blackbird too. At the end of the day, your 2nd pair are rolling the dice and they may or may not bring off some young. Don't be too disappointed if they don't, it's all part of the checks and balances and just shows that your neck of the woods is super-saturated with blue tits - it's a sign of how well they're doing in what is a marginal habitat for them. Think of them as a reserve pair, in case anything happens to the birds with the good oak tree territory.
The second pair aren't using the oak tree as that is in the first pair's territory, so they don't have access. The kind of thing you describe is common with suburban/urban Blue tit territories, as the birds are at artificially high densities due to the good artificial food supply in winter. The problem is that there isn't enough natural food to rear chicks. This is exactly the kind of situation I've got in my box at home, with the adults foraging in just 3 birch trees and a line of rose shrubs - basically all they have is aphids to feed the young on. They've started taking in sunflower hearts and also lard, but, as yu figured, the moisture content of these is so low that the chicks will die of dehydration if they start maxing out on it. Especially if the weather turns bad.
What Bill Oddie thought was 'inexperience' or 'bad parenting' on Springwatch last year, where the female kept placing a sunflower heart in a chick's gape, then taking it out for another one etc, is perfectly normal behaviour if you think about what they do with caterpillars - they squish them up and give each chick a little glug of the juice, so they all get a bit of food/moisture. That's clearly not going to work with sunflower hearts, but if it's all the blue tits have in their territory then they try it out of desperation. Blue tit territories of 1 pair per tennis court area works fine in woodland, as they all have trees dripping with caterpillars right outside the nest, but it doesn't work in suburbia where non-native trees/shrubs often don't have much food on them. They can keep 2 birds going throughout the year, but not an additonal 10 mouths in spring.
The only thing you can do, if you want to try and help, is to provide mini-mealworms, but this is expensive and will probably be raided by every passing starling and blackbird too. At the end of the day, your 2nd pair are rolling the dice and they may or may not bring off some young. Don't be too disappointed if they don't, it's all part of the checks and balances and just shows that your neck of the woods is super-saturated with blue tits - it's a sign of how well they're doing in what is a marginal habitat for them. Think of them as a reserve pair, in case anything happens to the birds with the good oak tree territory.
Interesting Poecile. Actually, I got very indignant at your first paragraph |
| , but what you went on to say makes sense. :brains:
I had been thinking of putting a second blue tit box up in my own garden for next year, but I'm not so sure now. Unlike Tracy we don't have any large trees, but loads of hedges, shrubs, hawthorn and masses of herbaceous plants. I frequently see adult blue tits, great tits, sparrows etc. collecting caterpillars and green fly from the plants, presumably to feed their babies. Over the last few years, we have had lots of broods of babies in the garden, so this has been successful, but I probably shouldn't be trying to introduce too many more.
Tracy, you'll just have to plant an oak tree at the other end of your garden.
| , but what you went on to say makes sense. :brains: I had been thinking of putting a second blue tit box up in my own garden for next year, but I'm not so sure now. Unlike Tracy we don't have any large trees, but loads of hedges, shrubs, hawthorn and masses of herbaceous plants. I frequently see adult blue tits, great tits, sparrows etc. collecting caterpillars and green fly from the plants, presumably to feed their babies. Over the last few years, we have had lots of broods of babies in the garden, so this has been successful, but I probably shouldn't be trying to introduce too many more.
Tracy, you'll just have to plant an oak tree at the other end of your garden.
KnockerNorton
Well-known member
florall said:Interesting Poecile. Actually, I got very indignant at your first paragraph |
Ah, yes, well, everyone loves BO, and the BBC likes to sell him as an 'expert' or an 'ornithologist' and he naturally gives his thoughts, but that kind of ignores the fact that he hasn't actually any experience in all this. he's basically a birdwatcher, nothing wrong with that, and while he knows how to identify birds, he doesn't know that much about their biology. And that's fair enough, because he has never studied it, he was in Footlights and writing comedy and music, that was his thing. So whe he gives an opinion, you have to remember that it's just that, an amateur's opinion, and not really based on any professional expertise. he's dropped several clangers on Springwatch, and that's not his fault as you can't really expect much more from him than jaunty presentation. It's like asking someone who drives to fix your engine, just because they have a car too.
Hi,thanks for your response,I hadn't thought about the oak tree being claimed by the pair in the box next to it.Last year the box at the front of my house which is causing the problem had a successful clutch and the parents were definately going to the nearest oak tree as were the ones in the box at the bottom of the garden..so i assumed the same would happen this year..If i look out of my bedroom window i can see 6 oak trees out the back and one to the front plus loads of other trees so there should be plenty of caterpillars to go round..Anyway i tried putting mealworms out and they were ignored its almost as if the parents were scared of them!!Then i took the other feeders down for a while to see what would happen and the blue tits sat there looking lost..I am at a loss..Hubby says i should look in the box to see how the chicks are doing but i would want to help them and don't know if i could..
Richard Bryce
Well-known member
Poecile said:
Not everyone. Too patronising by far for my taste.
"The only thing you can do, if you want to try and help, is to provide mini-mealworms, but this is expensive and will probably be raided by every passing starling and blackbird too. "
There are meal worm feeders available which exclude starlings and, unfortunately, blackbirds, but allow the tits and robins in. Vine House Farm has them. It takes a few days for the birds to figure out what's what. You need to leave the top up so the birds can see, which means that, initially, the starlings will get into it. But it doesn't take long. You can hang them from a tree branch or site them on the ground. I've got 3 in opposite edges of my garden in an attempt to prevent fighting. I've had some success there. If I want the blackbirds to get worms at this time of year I have to sit out and shoo the starlings away. Like I really have the time for this....<G> But the blackbirds catch on quickly and aren't as nervous as the starlings so that helps.
There are meal worm feeders available which exclude starlings and, unfortunately, blackbirds, but allow the tits and robins in. Vine House Farm has them. It takes a few days for the birds to figure out what's what. You need to leave the top up so the birds can see, which means that, initially, the starlings will get into it. But it doesn't take long. You can hang them from a tree branch or site them on the ground. I've got 3 in opposite edges of my garden in an attempt to prevent fighting. I've had some success there. If I want the blackbirds to get worms at this time of year I have to sit out and shoo the starlings away. Like I really have the time for this....<G> But the blackbirds catch on quickly and aren't as nervous as the starlings so that helps.
