Spotting Scope Advice for Beginner? (2 Viewers)

[tm3]

Hoping for some input to fine tune my choice re which specific models to consider.

*Primary use viewing birds over water out to a couple hundred yards
*Secondary use (anticipated) is experimenting with digiscoping as I do amateur photography
*Secondary use some casual astronomy
*Currently use Nikon Monarch binos and in side to side comparison in the field with more expensive models such as Swarovski I was unable to see enough difference to prompt me to upgrade

The Vortex Viper HD 20-60x85 has been recommended but is currently unavailable, and I'm wondering if there is a better fit for my criteria at possibly a better price point.

Thanks in advance for any comments!

 

[tm3]

Hoping for some input to fine tune my choice re which specific models to consider.

*Primary use viewing birds over water out to a couple hundred yards
*Secondary use (anticipated) is experimenting with digiscoping as I do amateur photography
*Secondary use some casual astronomy
*Currently use Nikon Monarch binos and in side to side comparison in the field with more expensive models such as Swarovski I was unable to see enough difference to prompt me to upgrade

The Vortex Viper HD 20-60x85 has been recommended but is currently unavailable, and I'm wondering if there is a better fit for my criteria at possibly a better price point.

Thanks in advance for any comments!

I probably didn't phrase my question very well. Let me try again.

From my research so far it looks like an under-$1000 scope with 80mm objective lens would suit my purpose.

I found a review by Audobon https://www.audubon.org/news/good-value
in which they say the three most important criteria are sharpness, brightness, and color. When looking at their ratings chart, the Celestron Trailseeker at $250 scores almost equal to their top rated Vortex Viper at $650 when considering just those three criteria. This suggests to me that the Celestron would yield virtually identical performance for a lot less money.

However, I'm looking for an 80mm (or even 100mm as the Trailseeker comes in that version) scope and those tested by Audubon have 65mm lenses.
Can I assume that what they conclude about the smaller scopes will apply to the larger scopes? Am I missing something?

Thanks!

 

[Bill Atwood]

What is your budget?

Do you have a tripod & head?

 

[Bill Atwood]

I'd take that Audubon review with a huge grain of salt. Those are all first gen Vortex scopes. 2nd gen is what's currently available, don't assume they are better or even equal.

I have the Opticron MM3 GA ED with the HDF zoom. Unlike the Audubon review I've found the 45x image to be quite sharp and I've no hesitation about cranking it up. Can say the same for the MM4 GA ED.

 

[tm3]

What is your budget?

Do you have a tripod & head?

I'd like to keep it under $1000, but could go higher if I felt that there was significant gain that I would be able to tell.

I've got a Bogen 3021 aluminum tripod that I was planning on using. It has a Bogen ballhead that I'm not real fond of, so I would likely replace with a new ballhead or a pan/tilt head. I was thinking of asking about tripod heads after I got the scope choice squared away.

 

[Bill Atwood]

Camera Land NY has the Athlon Cronus 20-60x86 for $849 through Monday 11/30. I've no experience with it, but it appears to be a decent to pretty good under the radar scope based on what I've read.

 

[Bill Atwood]

Land Sea & Sky has the Opticron MM4 77 GA ED with HDF 15-54x zoom for $1,069 or with the SDL2 18-54x zoom for $1,220. If the performance is comparable to the MM4 60 ED it's well worth the money.

 

[tm3]

Thank you I will investigate those options.

 

[jring]

Hi,

my advice would be to take your time and test a few used alpha scopes in person.
Possible candidates in the budget would be Nikon Fieldscope ED 82mm, Leica APO Televid 77mm, Kowa TSN-3/4, Kowa 823/4 (original eyepieces for those are not easy to get - a fairly expensive adapter allows using current Kowa small body EPs or you can use the Baader Hyperion Mk IV zoom).

Joachim

 

[tm3]

Hi,

my advice would be to take your time and test a few used alpha scopes in person.
Possible candidates in the budget would be Nikon Fieldscope ED 82mm, Leica APO Televid 77mm, Kowa TSN-3/4, Kowa 823/4 (original eyepieces for those are not easy to get - a fairly expensive adapter allows using current Kowa small body EPs or you can use the Baader Hyperion Mk IV zoom).

Joachim

That is great advice, and I would love to do it, but the opportunity for in person testing does not exist where I live.

If I can narrow the choice down to 2 or 3 I could possibly order them and return the one I don't like.

 

[tm3]

Keeping my eye open for used alpha scopes. If something does not turn up in the next week or two I'll buy new below the alpha level. I have more specifics that may influence the choice.

I said max 200 yard observing but that is not correct. Distance is out to 700 yards over water. At that distance, for example currently cannot get a good look with 12x stabilized binos Buffleheads or Mergansers. Can tell that bald eagle perched in a tree but can't really get a good look at it. I'm not sure what magnification is needed for this application.

Scope is going to be used off a deck, no need to be waterproof or especially small and light and durability is not a concern.

I appreciate ideas and suggestions!

 

[etudiant]

Start from the bottom up with a robust tripod because there is nothing more aggravating than trying to spot birds with a shaky scope.
The 2 piece Audubon tripod is probably as solid as one can get without spending lots. It is bulky and the head will be extra, but it really works well.

Tripods - The Audubon Shop Birder Supplies, Birdwatching Supplies, Madison, CT

Purchase Special! You'll get a Free Tripod Bag with your purchase of The Birder Tripod. No need to add a coupon, we will add this to your order. Good until 4/30/24.

www.theaudubonshop.com

For scopes, I'd second the idea of a used Nikon Fieldscope ED 82mm, they are optically excellent and very robust, but out of production, so hard to find.
Henry Link, an optics expert who often posts here on BF, was very impressed by the new Nikon Monarch 82ED, but that is $1600.
Good luck and please keep us posted.

 

[dwatsonbirder]

Here are a couple of good options within budget, sadly neither located in the US - there may be an option to ship if you enquire though. Nikon ED82 (with 50x) and Swarovski AT80HD (with 30x). I've owned both (as well as numerous others), and I still have the ED82, and no plans to change. Although the Nikon is straight, the eyepiece is the DS series, so designed for digi-scoping (and also ideal if you wear glasses).

 

[jring]

Hi,

the Nikon is probably a good buy - I would rather not recommend an AT80HD - especially not at that price... Its a really dated model (late 80s, early 90s) and its main selling point back then was the zoom EP, which was good for the time (at least better than what Kowa had) - but this one has a 30 wide which will probably work fine, but it's overpriced and not enough magnification for the intended use.

Cleyspy has two ED 78 mm Fieldscopes (one straight with a narrow 38x and one angled with a 30x wide - the latter is the better deal).

Used Equipment | Buy Online at CleySpy

CleySpy only stock the best quality Used Equipment, all available with a wide range of accessories - buy online at fantastic prices

www.cleyspy.co.uk

In Focus has an ED78 with the zoom... albeit a bit more expensive..

NIKON ED78A C/W MC ZOOM (WFV) :: In Focus

Excellent condition.

www.at-infocus.co.uk

Joachim

 

[tm3]

Thanks for all the info! If I buy used I'm hoping for something in the USA with a return policy, but that may not be possible.

I'm also considering a small SCT scope like the C90 or C5, or perhaps a small refractor telescope since durability, water resistance, and extreme portability are not factors.

It seems as though matching the instrument to what magnification I need is key, and I'm kind of stumped on that one. For inside 300 yards or so the stabilized 12x binos are fine and probably more convenient to grab than a scope on a tripod. For 600 yards is 30x ideal, 50x, 60x? Is zoom essential? Hard for me to tell without a hands on.

 

[jring]

Hi,

my home patch means watching the little nature reserve on the other bank of the river which is 170-250m (depending on angle). I can ID the usual stuff just fine with 8x bins - for sth rare and/or small (like the kingfisher I saw a few times a few years ago), I would want at least 20x...

But I prefer 52x - then a larger bird like my usual grey herons, cormorants or the black kites breeding in summer are nice and close and well framed in the fov.

Whether you need a zoom EP really depends on how you search stuff... If you can see stuff with bins and have learned to aim your scope at some postion you memorized (either with the cable trick or some aiming help or by pointing a stright scope in the general direction), a fixed high mag EP might be fine.

If your birds are too far to with bins, you would want to scan with your zoom at low magnification and then zoom in for a better view.

As for Maksutov- or Schmidt-Cassegrain astro scopes I'd say you want at least 120mm or so for a noticeably better view compared to a full size spotting scope of of 80-90mm.

The problem with those are their very slow focal ratios of f10-f15 resulting in focal length of 1250mm and above and pretty high minimum magnifications.

For the C5 with its 1250mm focal length you get 42x minimum magnification with a 30mm Ploessl or 52x with a 24mm Panoptic or ES 68 deg, which are the usual low mag EPs for 1.25"...
The Maks tend to be even slower and have even higher minimum magnifications.

Joachim

 

[tm3]

Joachim that is very helpful, thank you! I'm probably not going to be able to tell for sure without an audition so I may end up pulling the trigger on one of the new scope options and trying it, being sure that it has a robust return policy.