Round-headed Tufted Ducks (2 Viewers)

[Philip Round]

I'd like to seek the opinions of experienced Aythya duck watchers on these apparent Tufted Ducks, photographed at Bung Boraphet, Nakhon Sawan province, Central Thailand, in early January 2010. I am a bit troubled and puzzed by the seemingly smoothly rounded head of the male (centre), while at least two of the female-plumaged birds also seem to lack obvious tufts. (Will Duckworth, working in Laos, was the first to bring this up in the context of the few seemingly "untufted" Tufted Ducks he has seen there.)

So how unusual is this? Can hybrid status can be ruled out, since the male in the attached photograph has a typically Tufted Duck-like prominent black distal portion of the bill?

Is there any geographical variation in tuftedness across the wide range of this species? (Neither Will nor I can remember seeing birds that completely lacked tufts among those we used to look at in UK, though you will appreciate that it is now 20-30 years since either of us used to regularly look at Tufted Ducks there.)

The photograph is attached courtesy of Mr Wicha Narungsri.

 

[Philip Round]

Thailand's second record of Greater Scaup?

As a follow up to the posting on unusual-appearing Tufted Ducks, I'd also like to seek input from Aythya duck watchers on the identity of the enclosed female-plumaged duck (seen with Tufted Ducks at Bung Boraphet, Thailand, early January 2010, and by the same photographer, Mr. Wicha Narungsri). We presume this is our second Thai record of Greater Scaup, but in awareness of the propensity of Aythya ducks to hybridize, it seemed wise to seek supporting opinions.

Thank You.

 

[screaming piha]

Looks to me like a Tufted with a lot of white on the forehead. It seems the same size and shape as the obvious Tufted. And the bill tip has a lot of black.

 

[birdboybowley]

I'd have to go for Scaup based on plumage alone - cold greyish back, contrasting pale flanks. Think the amount of black on bill is a photographic effect

 

[Adam W]

I'd go for Scaup aswell as already mentioned the pale flanks but also pale cheek markings.

 

[snowcap]

Hi, white-faced, tuftless female Tufted Ducks not that unusual here in the UK.The bird in the second pic is however a Scaup.

cheers,S

 

[dantheman]

Bill shape/size indicative of Scaup in addition to other features mentioned ...

Presumably the overall size of the bird not a problem as there can be an overlap with Tufted Duck in any case.

(Lesser Scaup not an issue? - possibility of being a rare vagrant too?? (Not that it looks that much like one ... except a 'minor' peak on the crown?))

 

[tombac]

It looks to me as a female Tufted Duck- shape off of head and body (esp back typicall Tufted). Also the feamale looks a bit smaller than the male. I'v seen feamale Tufted Ducks with same amount white on forehead in Finland.

 

[Philip Round]

Thailand's second Greater Scaup

Thank you those who have commented on the identification of Thailand's putative second Greater Scaup. In retrospect, I should have posted this as a separate posting from the original, on round-headed Tufted Ducks. (So far as I know, nobody has yet responded to my query specifically relating to occurrence of Tufted Ducks without crests, which were shown in the first photograph).

Returning to the putative Scaup, I too , like Dantheman, had considered Lesser Scaup, having noted a slight peak when I 'scoped the bird (but which, however, I cannot discern from any photographs).

I have pleasure in enclosing another photo of the same bird in flight, taken by Thai bird photographer Chaiwat Chinuparawat, which shows the flight pattern. This possibly shows too much white in outer primaries for Lesser Scaup? So I assume this still leaves us to choose among Greater Scaup, Scaup-Tufted hybrid, or otherwise unusual-looking Tufted Duck, for the female-plumaged bird in the second and third photographs. Opinions are still split, though with a clear majority in favour of Scaup. In real life, the bird did appear slightly larger than accompanying Tufted Ducks, though this is cannot be judged from the photographs for reasons I do not fully appreciate.

 

[tombac]

http://www.tarsiger.com/gallery/ind...country=&place=&order=lisays_paiva+DESC&sel=2

Here's a picture (bottom) of a prob. Tufted Duck that caused some diff in identyfying it.
Same size or even littel smaller than the male. No visible crest.


If the page won't open: go to Tarsiger / images/ search

 

[peterarras]

Hi,
definitely is the duck in the second picture a Scaup,
no doubt!!!
Cheers
Peter.

 

[Steve Lister]

Although the female bird has a lot of pro-Greater Scaup features as detailed already it just looks too 'cute' and not 'chubby' enough and I would hesitate to say it does not have any Tufted Duck in it.

Steve

 

[chris butterworth]

The female with the large amount of white on the face is , IMO, a hybrid. Although it shows a lot of features I'd associate with Gtr. Scaup, including the bill, and nape shape, shade of the back and possibly tail length ( it always seems longer on Scaup, to me) it appears too small, the general shape is more like a Tufty and there is a very slight impression of a small tuft at the rear of the crown.
Chris

 

[Farnboro John]

To comment on the original query: all the birds look smaller headed than dry, at rest Tufted Ducks should. IMO they are normal Tufted Ducks that have been feeding intensively and their head shape is affected by the feathers being slicked down. The right-hand bird is least affected and shows a squarer rear to its head.

I reckon the other bird shows nothing that I wouldn't expect on a normal Greater Scaup.

John

 

[Graham S]

I would say its a hybrid and not a Scaup. On hybrids any grey areas on the back and flanks tend to be relatively uniform, as with this bird, whereas on Scaup these areas of grey are finely patterned (vermiculations). Other differences seem to be the shades of grey on the back and flanks being too dark, also the brown on the head and breast appears too dark and dull. The top of the head seems a little ‘high’. Its difficult to see the extent of black on the bill but it does extend from the nail back over the bill tip. I also think its too small and dinky.

Graham

 

[lewis20126]

Phil

Ref round-headed Tufted Ducks - I saw a large number of Tufted Ducks at Candaba Marsh on Luzon in December 2009 and although they were not particularly close, they certainly struck me as "odd"; I thought a high proportion of the males were crestless and scruffy and wondered if the eastern birds come out of eclipse slightly later (on average). I was of course trying to find a Baer's pochard having failed so spectacularly to see them on the good old days at Bung Buraphet!

I think there are some eastern populations of widespread birds worthy of investigation (e.g. Little Egret) and maybe tufted duck is one of them (although currently monotypic);

Of course these birds may just have wet heads as noted above!

The "Scaup" certainly has some (Greater) Scaup in it IMO (at least 50%) but would like to see other images.

Cheers,
alan