Ring-necked Duck hybrid?, London (3 Viewers)

[dbradnum]

Hi all

The attached photo was taken today by a good friend of mine in East London. We reckon it's quite possibly a Ring-necked Duck hybrid, given the shape and pattern of the bill and the head shape. It also appears to have silvery flanks becoming slightly whiter towards the front.

However, it would be great to hear others' views - what do you reckon the parents are? If one is a Ring-necked Duck, then was the other a European or an American species? My money's on Pochard, for what it's worth.

Anyone know of any other similar hybrids?

thanks,

 

[nickderry]

I think ring-necked x pochard, I don't think tuftie's involved anyway.

 

[Stephen Dunstan]

Hi all

The attached photo was taken today by a good friend of mine in East London. We reckon it's quite possibly a Ring-necked Duck hybrid, given the shape and pattern of the bill and the head shape. It also appears to have silvery flanks becoming slightly whiter towards the front.

However, it would be great to hear others' views - what do you reckon the parents are? If one is a Ring-necked Duck, then was the other a European or an American species? My money's on Pochard, for what it's worth.

Anyone know of any other similar hybrids?

thanks,

David,

I would be inclined to agree about RND influence looking at the bill.

It may be worth trying to get hold of the Gilham brothers inventories if you want to know a given hybrid combination has occurred. I had what was generally thought to be a Tufted Duck x Pintail some years ago which was published in one of their updates as it was a new combination.

Regards,

Stephen.

 

[The sniper]

David,is this the bird at ingrebourne???

 

[dbradnum]

Yep, that's the one, Rob - photo is by Dave Morrison. Think it was on the reservoir, but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[Dave Appleton]

You may be right, and Ring-necked Duck x Pochard is not a hybrid I'm familiar with. However, I suspect not.

For me this doesn't look very wrong for Pochard x Tufted Duck hybrids. The head shape seems ok - they're a bit variable, sometimes looking a bit more Lesser Scaup-like but a peak like this isn't unusual I don't think. The pale grey flanks is normal for Pochard x Tufted and they can get paler towards the front. Bill pattern looks fine for Pochard x Tufted Duck to me. Some Ring-necked Duck hybrids (but I've not seen many) have more obvious Ring-necked Duck pattern with pale at the base as well as in a distinct subterminal band (which may not extend back towards the base as much as here, at least in some).

So I am not sure, and Joern or someone may have a better idea, but for now I think it's most likely Pochard x Tufted Duck.

For comparison, here are some Pochard x Tufted Duck hybrids on my website and a greater selection on the Flickr Hybrid Birds group. For Ring-necked Duck hybrids so far we just have 2-3 Ring-necked Duck x Tufted Duck hybrids in the Flickr group.

It may be worth trying to get hold of the Gilham brothers inventories if you want to know a given hybrid combination has occurred.

These books are indeed a useful reference, though I'm not sure how comprehensive they are for checking if a combination has occurred or not. The Avian Hybrids book is also useful, though I'm told there are a lot of errors in it. But new combinations are always possible anyway...

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

You may be right, and Ring-necked Duck x Pochard is not a hybrid I'm familiar with. However, I suspect not.

For me this doesn't look very wrong for Pochard x Tufted Duck hybrids. The head shape seems ok - they're a bit variable, sometimes looking a bit more Lesser Scaup-like but a peak like this isn't unusual I don't think. The pale grey flanks is normal for Pochard x Tufted and they can get paler towards the front. Bill pattern looks fine for Pochard x Tufted Duck to me. Some Ring-necked Duck hybrids (but I've not seen many) have more obvious Ring-necked Duck pattern with pale at the base as well as in a distinct subterminal band (which may not extend back towards the base as much as here, at least in some).

So I am not sure, and Joern or someone may have a better idea, but for now I think it's most likely Pochard x Tufted Duck.

For comparison, here are some Pochard x Tufted Duck hybrids on my website and a greater selection on the Flickr Hybrid Birds group. For Ring-necked Duck hybrids so far we just have 2-3 Ring-necked Duck x Tufted Duck hybrids in the Flickr group.



These books are indeed a useful reference, though I'm not sure how comprehensive they are for checking if a combination has occurred or not. The Avian Hybrids book is also useful, though I'm told there are a lot of errors in it. But new combinations are always possible anyway...

I agree with you, Dave. I also think this is in the range of pochard x tufted duck variation.

However, I can not 100% exclude RND x Pochard.I have not yet seen male RND x Pochard. I only have seen a photo of a female hybrid RND x Pochard so far.

 

[The sniper]

Typical,I only live 1/4 mile away bur decided to have a break from birding today as I had the nipper all day lol,will have a look in the morning,cheers mate

 

[Edward]

For comparison, here's a suspected Ring-necked x Tufted hybrid which has been knocking about for a while in the Reykjavík area
http://www3.hi.is/~yannk/myndir/rarity/sj_aytfulcol020210.jpg
http://www3.hi.is/~yannk/myndir/rarity/sa_aytcxf050209.jpg
http://www3.hi.is/~yannk/myndir/rarity/cp_aytcol180509_2.jpg

 

[phil baber]

Scroll down to see a TuftedxPochard here...

http://www.birdingetc.com/2011/01/ducks-redux-aythyas-and-hybrids.html

Looks pretty similar to the thread bird, no? But the bill on the thread bird looks very much like that of a Ring-Neck and the mantle darkening seems softer and somewhat lighter.

 

[snowcap]

View attachment 306205

View attachment 306206For further comparison, a suspected Tufted x Pochard( or Scaup) and a Ring-necked x Tufted, both from Seaforth NR in the last two years.

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

I agree with you, Dave. I also think this is in the range of pochard x tufted duck variation.

However, I can not 100% exclude RND x Pochard.I have not yet seen male RND x Pochard. I only have seen a photo of a female hybrid RND x Pochard so far.

Actually I was wrong. When checking i found that I also had been sent a photo fron a captive male hybrid pochard x ringnecked duck some years ago.

that bird looks close to the probable tufted x pochard cross in this thread, but there is a substantial difference in bill pattern. it has a very dark bill, black or nearly black, from the base onwards, to a very pale band just before the tip, and a black tip.

 

[mäkpe]

I can't comment the subject bird but most vagrant (if not all) RNDs in Finland have been with Pochards, so i would excpect these hybrids be relatively common.

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

I can't comment the subject bird but most vagrant (if not all) RNDs in Finland have been with Pochards, so i would excpect these hybrids be relatively common.

But instead, most wild hybrids of RND observed in Europe were with Tufted Duck.