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Ragwort affects birds? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter willowa
- Start date
Brian Stone
A Stone chatting
A good deal on Ragwort here:
http://www.buglife.org.uk/html/project_ragwort_fact_file.htm
http://www.buglife.org.uk/html/project_ragwort_fact_file.htm
Hi Brian,
Thanks for the link it made intresting reading.
I Did'nt realise how many species rely on the plant. I used to own a horse and it was always drilled in to be on the lookout for ragwort. I wondered if It would affect the birds in my garden. I don't suppose there is any information on this plant affecting birds. I do know it is poisonous to humans, absorbing it through the skin. But I suppose you have to touch a lot of it. As I garden for wildlife and do no use pesticides/insecticides. I will think again about pulling it up.
Willowa.
Thanks for the link it made intresting reading.
I Did'nt realise how many species rely on the plant. I used to own a horse and it was always drilled in to be on the lookout for ragwort. I wondered if It would affect the birds in my garden. I don't suppose there is any information on this plant affecting birds. I do know it is poisonous to humans, absorbing it through the skin. But I suppose you have to touch a lot of it. As I garden for wildlife and do no use pesticides/insecticides. I will think again about pulling it up.
Willowa.
Hi Willowa
That certainly was an interesting read in Brian's link.
It would seem that birds are not dependent on this plant, except possibly seed eaters like Goldfinch and those looking for the insects. I can't think of any that would eat the foliage, the only part, I believe, which is poisonous.
I, too, spent years pulling up ragwort from my ponies' fields - nightmare job! :-C
D
That certainly was an interesting read in Brian's link.
It would seem that birds are not dependent on this plant, except possibly seed eaters like Goldfinch and those looking for the insects. I can't think of any that would eat the foliage, the only part, I believe, which is poisonous.
I, too, spent years pulling up ragwort from my ponies' fields - nightmare job! :-C
D
David FG
The Big Dipper
willowa said:
If it is poisonous through absorption one would have to be exposed to massive doses of it. I used to be a reserve warden, and part of the management programme on 'my' reserves was grazing by cattle (and ponies) so one of the least enjoyable tasks was ragwort pulling. I never (nor did anyone else) came to any harm and we were probably exposed to more of the stuff than most.
As far as birds are concerned, I can't think of any that would eat the stuff.
Hi folks,
I noticed this older thread and I thought I would contribute to it.
Ragwort DOESN'T kill thousands of animals a year. The story, although oft repeated as a result of a publicity campaign, is a case of very very poor science. I have made a comprehensive study of the scientific literature in order to check this out.
The story starts from a "Survey" where hundreds of vets were contacted. A tiny handful replied and these were then multiplied up as if everyone had replied!. This is junk science. In fact I think it is terrible to use statistics like his in order to mislead.
It is actually very difficult to establish that ragwort poisoning has occured because the damaging compounds occur in a whole range of sources. Creosote is an important one but waste incinerators have been established as a cause where ragwort was once blamed in one scientific paper.
In any case the evidence clearly shows clearly that while toxic, the plant is not very dangerous. It is just one of a number of poisonous plants. It kills rarely and then usually only when it has been allowed to contaminate hay.
The danger that the hysterical campaigning has caused is shown
by this page from Buglife-The invertebrate conservation trust http://www.buglife.org.uk/html/project_ragwort.htm where they show serious damage to an SSSI as a result.
A Scottish MSP has attempted to get a law passed there that would force landowners to control ALL poisonous plants. This would include things like bluebells and holly! This was as a result of the campaign against ragwort.
I suspect the effect on birds from the seeds is rather small although the habitat damage by the campaigning is rather more serious.
For more details please see http://www.ragwortfacts.com/
I noticed this older thread and I thought I would contribute to it.
Ragwort DOESN'T kill thousands of animals a year. The story, although oft repeated as a result of a publicity campaign, is a case of very very poor science. I have made a comprehensive study of the scientific literature in order to check this out.
The story starts from a "Survey" where hundreds of vets were contacted. A tiny handful replied and these were then multiplied up as if everyone had replied!. This is junk science. In fact I think it is terrible to use statistics like his in order to mislead.
It is actually very difficult to establish that ragwort poisoning has occured because the damaging compounds occur in a whole range of sources. Creosote is an important one but waste incinerators have been established as a cause where ragwort was once blamed in one scientific paper.
In any case the evidence clearly shows clearly that while toxic, the plant is not very dangerous. It is just one of a number of poisonous plants. It kills rarely and then usually only when it has been allowed to contaminate hay.
The danger that the hysterical campaigning has caused is shown
by this page from Buglife-The invertebrate conservation trust http://www.buglife.org.uk/html/project_ragwort.htm where they show serious damage to an SSSI as a result.
A Scottish MSP has attempted to get a law passed there that would force landowners to control ALL poisonous plants. This would include things like bluebells and holly! This was as a result of the campaign against ragwort.
I suspect the effect on birds from the seeds is rather small although the habitat damage by the campaigning is rather more serious.
For more details please see http://www.ragwortfacts.com/
When I owned a Horse there was a problem with hay as Ragwort was hard to dectect in the hay, but I think it must taste horrid as in the morning lots of uneaten weed like materiel was left on the floor. A friend had to have her pony put down due to liver failer thought to be due to ragwort poisoning. But as it takes a long time in the system of a horse it is hard to get a good diagnosis.
I saw a red moth last week in my garden I think it was a cinnabar moth. But not sure will have to look it up.
I saw a red moth last week in my garden I think it was a cinnabar moth. But not sure will have to look it up.
Katy Penland
Well-known member
Hi, Neil! I see this is your first post, so a warm welcome to you from all of us on staff here at BirdForum!
Interesting thread. Now I have to go look up what ragwort is as I've never seen it. Perhaps we don't have it here in North America?
Interesting thread. Now I have to go look up what ragwort is as I've never seen it. Perhaps we don't have it here in North America?
To answer a few of the comments above.
It does occur as an introduced plant in North America. It is often known rather confusingly as Tansy Ragwort. ( Tansy is a different plant again.) It is a problem invasive weed there, but this is caused by it being foreign to the ecology. It is an important native wild flower here.
Incidentally there is also a story being put around that there is a plague of ragwort due to the cinnabar moth having a population crash. I am primarily a butterfly and moth person and I can tell you this is complete and utter nonsense. There has been a decline in most moth populations in Britain but there are still plenty of cinnabars around. This appears to have been started by someone selling cinnabars as biological control.
Here is a letter from the Sunday Telegraph a major national newspaper. I have already dealt with the 6500 deaths above.
It is a fake figure derived from junk science statistics but this is what this vet had to say.
----------------------------------------------------------
Re: Cherchez les toxins Date: 3 August 2003
It seems that ragwort is fast becoming the subject of a nationwide outburst of hysteria similar to that caused by salmonella in eggs (News, July 27). In the hope of calming it, I offer the following thoughts
Yes, ragwort is poisonous to horses, cattle and sometimes sheep. It can cause acute liver damage in young stock, but this is rare. It is most commonly encountered as chronic liver damage in older animals. But ragwort is distasteful to horses and cattle, and they will eat it only if they are half-starved on a pasture that is bare of almost anything else.
In the agricultural depression of the 1930s and during the Second World War, there was far more ragwort around than there is today. There were no selective weedkillers available, so it had to be controlled either by hand-pulling or by allowing sheep to graze off the young plants, which are less poisonous. There were also many more horses in the country, working on farms or pulling delivery vans. Ragwort poisoning was a recognised disease, but not a major problem.
Any good stockman would not leave his animals on a bare pasture with ragwort. I find it hard to believe that so many of today's horsemen and women leave their horses on bare ragwort-infested pasture that 6,500 of animals succumb to ragwort poisoning annually. I realise that some ragwort could be bought in with hay, but ragwort is easily spotted, is normally rejected by the horse and is in any case easily removed by the groom/ owner. It could be more of a problem to those few horses that are fed silage.
I suggest that if 6,500 horses are dying of "ragwort-like" liver damage each year, it is time to look for other possible toxins. Pesticides added to grain to control weevils and mites are certainly one possibility.
From: Frances Wolferstan BA, Vet MB, MRCVS, Tamworth, Staffordshire
It does occur as an introduced plant in North America. It is often known rather confusingly as Tansy Ragwort. ( Tansy is a different plant again.) It is a problem invasive weed there, but this is caused by it being foreign to the ecology. It is an important native wild flower here.
Incidentally there is also a story being put around that there is a plague of ragwort due to the cinnabar moth having a population crash. I am primarily a butterfly and moth person and I can tell you this is complete and utter nonsense. There has been a decline in most moth populations in Britain but there are still plenty of cinnabars around. This appears to have been started by someone selling cinnabars as biological control.
Here is a letter from the Sunday Telegraph a major national newspaper. I have already dealt with the 6500 deaths above.
It is a fake figure derived from junk science statistics but this is what this vet had to say.
----------------------------------------------------------
Re: Cherchez les toxins Date: 3 August 2003
It seems that ragwort is fast becoming the subject of a nationwide outburst of hysteria similar to that caused by salmonella in eggs (News, July 27). In the hope of calming it, I offer the following thoughts
Yes, ragwort is poisonous to horses, cattle and sometimes sheep. It can cause acute liver damage in young stock, but this is rare. It is most commonly encountered as chronic liver damage in older animals. But ragwort is distasteful to horses and cattle, and they will eat it only if they are half-starved on a pasture that is bare of almost anything else.
In the agricultural depression of the 1930s and during the Second World War, there was far more ragwort around than there is today. There were no selective weedkillers available, so it had to be controlled either by hand-pulling or by allowing sheep to graze off the young plants, which are less poisonous. There were also many more horses in the country, working on farms or pulling delivery vans. Ragwort poisoning was a recognised disease, but not a major problem.
Any good stockman would not leave his animals on a bare pasture with ragwort. I find it hard to believe that so many of today's horsemen and women leave their horses on bare ragwort-infested pasture that 6,500 of animals succumb to ragwort poisoning annually. I realise that some ragwort could be bought in with hay, but ragwort is easily spotted, is normally rejected by the horse and is in any case easily removed by the groom/ owner. It could be more of a problem to those few horses that are fed silage.
I suggest that if 6,500 horses are dying of "ragwort-like" liver damage each year, it is time to look for other possible toxins. Pesticides added to grain to control weevils and mites are certainly one possibility.
From: Frances Wolferstan BA, Vet MB, MRCVS, Tamworth, Staffordshire
Henry B said:
Hi Harry
Ragwort is an attractive yellow plant. It is bienial, in the first year it produces a rosette like plant then it flowers the following year. I think it flowers in the summer so if I get a good photo I will post one.
The Ragwort around the grass verges of Northants has been left untouched in recent years as it posses no threat to Animals.
I only found one plant in my horses field in two years and as she had enough grass to eat she left it alone. There are lots of poisonous plants around like the foxglove fatal to humans if eaten but we still grow them. Ragwort should be left alone. I raised this subject as I wounderd if its seeds was harmfull to the birds in my garden. I think we all need to keep things in perspective just like everything else we need common sense. Yes remove it from grazing animal and hay fields and let it grow elswhere.
:t:
