Norfolk birding (10 Viewers)

[Stratton Birder]

Does anyone have any thoughts or photographs in regards to the recent female Scaup on Ormesby Little Broad? I went to have another look at this bird today and the conditions could not have been more perfect with the sun shining onto the ducks and the water being completely flat and calm. However, upon scoping what I expected to be the same pure Scaup which I thought I had observed eight days previous, instead I found myself looking at what looked to be an impure bird. It had plenty of white at the base of the bill but with a slight peak at the top of the crown and an obvious contrast between the pale flanks and darker back. The bill didn't look quite right either and it was the same size as the Tufteds. I'm tempted to write off my previous sighting on the assumption that this is the same bird but wonder what other birders who have been on site think. The two bird theory may be unlikely on this occasion, but at the time, a few days previous, I was certain I was looking at a very nice female Scaup although the conditions were not as favourable then as they were today. Would appreciate any comments.

Steve.

 

[Phil Andrews]

On thursday I found a common pochard with a nasal saddle tag on, I was walking along the river near potter heigham. It turned out to be a bird from france, ringed near paris. There are also a few greylags with neck collars which were local birds from hickling........not the rare orkney greylag.

A female with a blue nasal saddle from presumably the same scheme, ringed (lor should that be saddled? ) at Laval, north-west France in summer 2013 was noted at Upton Warren NR, Worcestershire on several dates in October 2013.

 

[STS]

Had a very pleasant afternoon at Burnham Overy Dunes. Saw a Short-eared Owl and later, from up by the road, the Rough-legged Buzzard as it flew west of Gun Hill just before 5 o'clock. Grateful thanks to the birders I met who kindly shared information.

Thomas

 

[Bittern2010]

Reedham to Berney

Had a pleasant hike from Reedham to Berney Arms and back again today.

The walk started with a surprise in the form of a Grey Seal which was lounging on a wooden beam underneath the railway bridge at Reedham.

I was hoping to see a good range of raptors and I wasn't disappointed. There were several Marsh Harriers, 3+ Common Buzzards. 2 Peregrines, 1 Rough Legged Buzzard, 1 male Hen Harrier, 1 Short Eared Owl and a Barn Owl.

There was a supporting cast of Fieldfares, Bearded tits, Hares, Chinese Water Deer and a huge flock of Pink Feet on Berney Marshes.

A Small Tortoiseshell at Berney Arms was my first Butterfly of the year.

Back at Reedham, there were one or two bats flitting about at dusk.

Cheer Steve

 

[peter kitchener]

The Scaup at Ormesby Little Broad

I first saw this bird on 12th February and although I “needed” it as a year tick, I was concerned it might be a hybrid. I returned the following day and attempted to obtain some photographs, but with a 400mm lens at the distances involved the images were pretty awful. (I was unable to digiscope the bird as my scope was being repaired by Swarovski). I decided not to post my views on BF or elsewhere, partly because I was unable to substantiate my views with any decent images. However, I know that at least two “high profile” Norfolk birders, who probably have no desire to enter a debate, shared my views.

Judging by the bright yellow iris, the bird is probably an adult female (juvenile females probably acquire their adult iris colour in their 2nd Winter; BWP). I too thought there was a rather peaked crown (and even a suggestion of a crest on occasions), dark upperparts, and lack of significant barring on the flanks. The bird appeared the same size as adjacent Tufteds.

However, it was the bill that worried me most. At most angles the nail appeared black and large, extending laterally at the tip of the bill. However, at some angles the black nail appeared smaller with a paler dark grey extending laterally. The most worrying feature, I thought, was a very prominent, well-defined, pale subterminal band, almost recalling Ring-necked Duck.

I know that many birders have seen this bird and are happy that it is a Scaup. My own conclusion was this was probably a female Tufted/Scaup hybrid. Some pretty crappy images are attached (I hope!)

 

[ChrisBish]

Just beside the main path about 10 metres from the turn-off to the Titchwell shop, a Long-tailed Tit was energetically building a nest - in February!
MJB

A pair appear to be nest building in a dense bush in my garden over the past few days. Really hope they stick around to breed!

 

[NoSpringChicken]

Being of a naturally gloomy disposition I can't help being a little worried by these signs of spring. It just seems too early and I have a nasty feeling that we will be plunged into arctic conditions in the next few weeks. I really hope I am wrong though.

I enjoyed watching the bumble bees moving about amongst the carpet of purple crocuses over the border in Sparrows Nest gardens this afternoon and the Skylarks singing on Carlton Marshes. :smoke:

Ron

 

[AFeather]

A female with a blue nasal saddle from presumably the same scheme, ringed (lor should that be saddled? ) at Laval, north-west France in summer 2013 was noted at Upton Warren NR, Worcestershire on several dates in October 2013.

This was a male with a blue nasal saddle, probably the same saddling scheme.

 

[Bittern2010]

Scaup at Little Ormesby Broad

Does anyone have any thoughts or photographs in regards to the recent female Scaup on Ormesby Little Broad? I went to have another look at this bird today and the conditions could not have been more perfect with the sun shining onto the ducks and the water being completely flat and calm. However, upon scoping what I expected to be the same pure Scaup which I thought I had observed eight days previous, instead I found myself looking at what looked to be an impure bird. It had plenty of white at the base of the bill but with a slight peak at the top of the crown and an obvious contrast between the pale flanks and darker back. The bill didn't look quite right either and it was the same size as the Tufteds. I'm tempted to write off my previous sighting on the assumption that this is the same bird but wonder what other birders who have been on site think. The two bird theory may be unlikely on this occasion, but at the time, a few days previous, I was certain I was looking at a very nice female Scaup although the conditions were not as favourable then as they were today. Would appreciate any comments.

Steve.

Hi Steve,

I visited Little Ormesby Broad last Sunday and had the Scaup pointed out to me by other birders present. At the time I did "tick" the bird I saw as a Scaup. I did briefly discuss the possibility of the bird being a hybrid because it looked too clean cut rather than having the scruffy plumage I associate with Female Scaups. However a catalogue of poor excuses such as lack of time, feeling unwell, my dodgy id skills and the opinions expressed by other experienced onlookers meant I accepted it as a Scaup and moved on. I can't remember there being any hint of a peak or Tuft though.

Having just seen the photos posted by Peter above, my view now is that the bird is a Hybrid with some Scaup DNA. Another really bizarre feature shown on some of the photos is the chest appears almost chestnut coloured which is not a feature present in Tufties or Scaup.

Thanks for raising this point Steve and Peter but I am even more confused now.

Cheers

Steve

 

[MJB]

Another really bizarre feature shown on some of the photos is the chest appears almost chestnut coloured which is not a feature present in Tufties or Scaup. Steve

...but it is a feature of two European Aythya species, Common Pochard and Ferruginous Duck....o
MJB

 

[Stratton Birder]

Thanks for the feedback everyone and for the photos Peter. Photo 1 shows a hint of the peaked crown which in the field looked slightly more noticeable than this. With the yellow iris, extensive white at the base of the bill and lack of any ear-covert patch, presumably this is a winter adult female. I would expect much less contrast between the flanks and upperparts on a pure bird if this is the case, and a cleaner looking, pale grey bill.
Many observers may have walked away from this bird happy that it was nothing less than a typical looking female Scaup including me initially, but by at least raising questions to the parentage of this bird which IS pre-dominantly Scaup-looking, I feel that some discussion about it will do no harm.

Many thanks.

Steve.

 

[ben_lewis]

While on the theme of discussing interesting looking birds... Has anyone put in any notes to the BBRC regarding the Hoveton 2barred crossbill?
There appear to be a few inconsistencies so would be good to see what the records committee think of the bird. I did not get the prolonged views that I would want before attempting to write a description of the bird.
It is an interesting bird but what is it?

 

[sacha]

While on the theme of discussing interesting looking birds... Has anyone put in any notes to the BBRC regarding the Hoveton 2barred crossbill?
There appear to be a few inconsistencies so would be good to see what the records committee think of the bird. I did not get the prolonged views that I would want before attempting to write a description of the bird.
It is an interesting bird but what is it?

I have been thinking the same. I have not seen the bird but there are good photos around and a worn bird is one opinion, hybrid also considered. They seem much harder to prove than Parrot Xbills these days!

 

[Lightthiscandle]

2BxB

I saw and photographed the bird a couple of weeks ago: all I'll say is that it was incredibly easy to pick up: it was a different colour than the XBs, had obvious white tertial tips and (when the wind wasn't blowing!) the wing bar was distinct from all angles...
I've also seen the 'real' Two-barreds at Linford and the dubious long-stayer: IMHO this looks much more like the real deal.

 

[peter kitchener]

The Hoveton Crossbill

I saw this bird on 4th February and obtained some digiscoped images. I came away confused, and searching through various articles, photos and references just added to my confusion.

It would appear that there is considerable overlap in many features of “poorly marked” Two-barred and “well marked” wing-barred Common Crossbill; overall colour, bill size, pattern and colour of wingbars & tertials, and the number of primaries visible beyond the longest tertial.

However, it would appear that the pattern of the longest central uppertail coverts may be a good discriminator in all plumages; dark (blackish or dark grey) with broad well-defined whitish fringes in Two-barred; paler (often same colour as rump) without white tips in Common Crossbill. The Hoveton bird has pale pinkish feathers (similar to the rump), but with pale fringes and tips!

Attached are some poor quality digiscoped images of the Hoveton bird and a Lynford juvenile showing the difference in the uppertail coverts.

Refs:
Identification Guide to European Passerines, Svensson
Advanced Bird ID Handbook, Nils Van Duivendijk

 

[john miller]

Has nobody heard either the Lynford or the Hoveton bird do the diagnostic 'toy trumpet' call. The bird that was on Kelling Heath for a couple of days last year could be picked up in a flock of Crossbills by its call.

John

 

[ben_lewis]

Has nobody heard either the Lynford or the Hoveton bird do the diagnostic 'toy trumpet' call. The bird that was on Kelling Heath for a couple of days last year could be picked up in a flock of Crossbills by its call.

John

That seems to be yet another problem with the bird, some people have watched the bird for a while without hearing any non common bill calls.

Good work on the longest central upper tail covert colour peter, hadn't looked into that one. After talking to people on site it seems the jury is definitely out on this one.
Yes the colour makes it easy to pick up but colour varies the full spectrum between the two species, the bill doesn't look quite right and the general shape doesn't look that different to the commons that it's with.

I saw the bird relatively briefly but wasn't overly happy so went back a few days later but didn't see the bird again, I wish I'd have studied it a bit more in the pouring rain when I saw it!

So back to my original question- will the bbrc be getting a description of the bird from anyone who saw it well and have images, I'd love to see what they make of this one.

 

[Stratton Birder]

The Hoveton Two-barred Crossbill was also noted by several observers, courting and feeding a female Common Crossbill on at least two occasions while I was watching it which probably wont do much for its credentials either.

 

[Lightthiscandle]

2bxb

The whole Crossbill taxonomy seems, to a non-specialist like me, very cloudy: Parrot / Scottish / Common and Common /2b all have grey areas. Just look at this thread!
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=136858
At both Holt CP and Spink's Lodge I watched definite Parrots feeding / giving the good news to obvious Common females.... Any port in a storm?
The bill size / shape is, IMHO also difficult: BF / SB / BG are awash with photos of Crossbils that are labelled as Parrot but have much more Common-sized / shaped bills: many of the 'Common' shots from West Stow show birds with huge bills!
Same with the Scaup at Rollesby: hybrid? abberrant Scaup? In some lights / distances it looks fine, at other times it looks dubious. I know Ben was happy with both the duck and the CB when he saw them (Says so on his initial blog postings!) All I would say is:
1) I saw & photo'ed both very well
2) The people I was with at the time thought the CB was fine, if a little non-descript. You pays your money....
Bottom line: it's up to the individual: neither of these are earth-shattering species to see in the Winter in the UK!

 

[sacha]

Hi David
I agree with what you say about the complexity of some species but that is what makes birding even more interesting. I am still keen to know how variable C Crossbills can be having seen plenty of wing barred birds but never extremes like the Hoveton bird. If it isn't a 2 barred then must surely be a hybrid?
There seems to be little online regarding hybrids other than some photos of presumed hybrids from a museum collection.
I have not see the Hoveton bird but shape and extent of tips to tertials (despite being worn) must surely be too extreme for Common.. But for a hybrid? No idea
Would be interesting to know.
Sacha