Nikon FF (and DX) Mirrorless rumours/ announcements (3 Viewers)

[nikonmike]

Nikon Z7

45.7 MP back-illuminated CMOS
EXPEED 6
The hybrid AF system covers about 90% of the imaging area
Continuous: 9 frames / sec
3.2" touchscreen
Recording medium: XQD card
Size: 134 x 100.5 x 67.5 mm
Weight: 675 g
British pricing: body:£3399, lens kit:£3499, 24-70mm kit:£3999, 24-70mm + FTZ:£4099

 

[Chosun Juan]

Specs comparison:
Nikon D5 vs D850 vs D750 vs D500 vs Z7 vs Z6 vs SONY a7R III vs a7 III
https://nikonrumors.com/2018/08/22/...riii-vs-a7iii-specifications-comparison.aspx/

Looks squarely aimed at the SONY a7's with some handy incremental gains .....


Chosun :gh:

 

[Chosun Juan]

Well, the eagle has landed !

It seems that the "pretty much free" FTZ adapter will cost you a minimum of $150 if you buy it with a Z6 or Z7 this year, otherwise you'll fork over another $100 on top of that. No mention of weight of the FTZ adapter that I can find so far, but if you are using an F mount lens, it pretty much puts you back at DSLR size with not as good grip ergonomics.

https://m.dpreview.com/articles/003...tm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source


This makes the proposed lens rollout critical, but it seems a native super telephoto prime is not even on the radar yet .....

https://m.dpreview.com/news/1176872996/nikon-s-three-year-lens-roadmap-includes-58mm-f0-95-noct



Chosun :gh:

 

[Chosun Juan]

Nikon Z7 what you need to know:
https://m.dpreview.com/articles/416...tm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source



Chosun :gh:

 

[Chosun Juan]

Nikon Z7, first impressions review
https://m.dpreview.com/reviews/niko...tm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source

It seems the buffer is a little on the small side ....
Also the rated 330 shots of the battery seems pitifully low ...



Chosun :gh:

 

[Vespobuteo]

Nikon Z7, first impressions review
https://m.dpreview.com/reviews/niko...tm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source

It seems the buffer is a little on the small side ....

Chosun :gh:

It's a neat little product segmentation trick. Only 1 card slot is another.
Nikon want to sell their DSLR:s as well.

Z6 and Z7 look like nice cams but for wildlife/action/sports,
I don't see them as the first choice.

Maybe there will be a Z500 or Z5 in the future with bigger grip, battery, buffer etc.
But my guess is that there will be a D600 and D6 before that.

 

[capdegat]

if you want to go mirrorless and can afford it why buy one card slot ? Imagine you've just taken a pic you know you'll never ever get again and and 10 minutes later the card claps out ? Nikon saves all the money from focus module , mirror ,labour and pentaprism and cheapskates on second slot but charges D850 price !

 

[willie45]

Is this useful for wildlife?

The thing I wonder is with no telephoto appearing on the roadmap, will birders use one of these with F - mount lenses and converter? Is this a worthwhile idea? I'm not sure. Maybe the D850 will reign supreme for a while yet?

 

[Chosun Juan]

It's a neat little product segmentation trick. Only 1 card slot is another.
Nikon want to sell their DSLR:s as well.

Z6 and Z7 look like nice cams but for wildlife/action/sports,
I don't see them as the first choice.

Maybe there will be a Z500 or Z5 in the future with bigger grip, battery, buffer etc.
But my guess is that there will be a D600 and D6 before that.

Yes, I fully agree! It seems that Nikon has done just 'enough' to fall over the line without setting the world on fire.

Leading EVF (but not massively better than Sony), nice size touchscreen considering the form factor, a bit better video performance (compared to D850) .... but those 'niggly' little druthers .... buffer limitations and card constraints. We should consider the delivered product against Nikon's stated aims (as I posted at the start of this thread).

I would suggest they are nice little cams for the Nikon faithful !

Sony has room to move the game on with an a7(R) IV revision ..... and they have shown the will to do it.

It does seem the way is paved for further segmentation with room for a DX Z500 (perhaps called Z5) with larger buffer, and a Z9 (Sony a9 competitor) , higher speed, bigger buffer, better AF.




Chosun :gh:

 

[opticoholic]

I would suggest they are nice little cams for the Nikon faithful !

I agree. It's a nice looking full frame mirrorless camera and a good start. Not everything we could have hoped, but not bad and it should be good enough to finally get Nikon "in the game"... Now let's see if they can roll it all out smoothly without delays, shortages, issues, etc. Good that they provided a lens road map. And I'll watch to see how soon the 3rd party lens makers start to offer native Z-mount lenses. If I were getting this I would want to commit to the native mount. I would not want to use that FTZ adapter forever... Also I just wouldn't love the idea of an FTZ adapter PLUS a teleconverter plus a lens...

And I don't see any native Z mount long telephotos anywhere on the road map at least at the moment. For that reason and several others, I think I agree with others that these first Z cameras are probably not the best choice for someone buying a brand-new system especially for birds/wildlife. But that's ok; I did not expect that. It still looks like a nice all-round new camera system. And I'm sure people could take very nice bird photos with the Z7 in DX crop mode plus an adapted F-mount telephoto.

Dave

 

[Chosun Juan]

if you want to go mirrorless and can afford it why buy one card slot ? Imagine you've just taken a pic you know you'll never ever get again and and 10 minutes later the card claps out ? Nikon saves all the money from focus module , mirror ,labour and pentaprism and cheapskates on second slot but charges D850 price !

I agree, these first Mirrorless FF (and following DX) iterations from Nikon, seem unnecessarily hobbled and segmented. It is almost a Canon market protectionist type implementation. They seem to have done just enough to get into the market while firmly protecting their DSLR business. I feel this leaves the door wide open for SONY.



Chosun :gh:

 

[Chosun Juan]

Is this useful for wildlife?

The thing I wonder is with no telephoto appearing on the roadmap, will birders use one of these with F - mount lenses and converter? Is this a worthwhile idea? I'm not sure. Maybe the D850 will reign supreme for a while yet?

Probably only if it is the only camera you have on you. It would seem that the DSLR's are still the go to rigs, particularly with the lack of Mirrorless Telephoto lenses on the horizon.

Nikon have wrapped up the FTZ adapter operating protocols, so it seems they want a tight grip on adapter provision (at $250 a pop!) - I'm not sure if they have shared the mount protocols with third party lens manufacturers, or if they will have to reverse engineer it as before.

Really by the time you add the bulk and mass of the FTZ adapter to the Z6 or 7 and your F telephoto - what becomes the point? That's an expensive EVF and slightly better video !



Chosun :gh:

 

[Chosun Juan]

From post#5,

..... This is what Nikon have stated: (I've misplaced these source references, but they are statements from Nikon themselves which I will paraphrase)
1. There is no need to hurry a revolution in the next 5 year timeframe - profitability can be maintained with high end products.
2. Strong/leading IQ will be a core feature of Nikon business going forward.
3. Long telephoto capability will be another core feature of Nikon business going forward.
4. Strong/uncompromising EVF performance will be a key feature of Nikon Mirrorless business going forward......

All,

I think it helps to measure this delivered Z offering and lens road map against Nikon's originally stated aims .....

How successful do you think they've been ?




Chosun :gh:

 

[opticoholic]

How successful do you think they've been ?

So far so good. They made progress on item #4 with these Z cameras, according to early reports. As for item #2, it's not all about sensors; I think many of their lenses have room for improvement. Maybe as they roll out the native Z mount lenses we will see the new lenses improve in performance. The "focus by wire"... maybe that's ok, I don't know. For some photography I still like old fashioned metal lenses with smooth fine manual focus. The Noct 58mm f/.95 might be that type of lens... but what a beast, really too big for the little Z body proportionally/ergonomically.

Dave

 

[Chosun Juan]

So far so good. They made progress on item #4 with these Z cameras, according to early reports. As for item #2, it's not all about sensors; I think some of their lenses have room for improvement. Maybe as they roll out the native Z mount lenses we will see the new lenses improve in performance. The "focus by wire"... maybe that's ok, I don't know. For some photography I still like old fashioned metal lenses with smooth fine manual focus. The Noct 58mm f/.95 might be that type of lens... but what a beast, really too big for the little Z body proportionally/ergonomically.

Dave

It seems that this Z offering is some type of all rounder, particularly with the launch lenses, and next 2 years lens road map https://www.nikonrumors.co/here-is-the-nikon-z-mount-lens-roadmap/

Not much joy in there for bird photographers - it seems they have been segmented out of the Mirrorless picture. I can't fathom why the new 500 f5.6 PF wasn't also co-developed as a Z mount. It seems unnecessarily cynical market segment micromanagement. .....

They should have paid attention to the original Ghostbusters film and "crossed the streams" !

I'm sure those after more of a FF travel type cam will love it though ...... however I'm questioning whether anyone in the Sony camp will feel compelled to change - I think not ..... :cat:


P.S. I think Nikon have absolutely nailed their stated aim #1:
"1. There is no need to hurry a revolution in the next 5 year timeframe - profitability can be maintained with high end products."

I'm not entirely sure if that's a good thing or not ! :eek!:




Chosun :gh:

 

[Chosun Juan]

Details of 'baby brother' Z6
https://m.dpreview.com/news/4242909447/nikon-z6-is-a-lower-resolution-less-expensive-z7

24.5MP BSI CMOS sensor, 12fps, 273 AF pts, same body, same EVF, and over sampled 4K video ...... 1996USD




Chosun :gh:

 

[opticoholic]

Details of 'baby brother' Z6
https://m.dpreview.com/news/4242909447/nikon-z6-is-a-lower-resolution-less-expensive-z7

24.5MP BSI CMOS sensor, 12fps, 273 AF pts, same body, same EVF, and over sampled 4K video ...... 1996USD

Chosun :gh:

Yup, that Z6 looks like a pretty nice camera for non-bird photography and the size of the camera itself is pretty close to the flagship micro-4/3 camera bodies (see attached image). It's a lot of camera and the price also is not too far from the price at introduction of those top micro-4/3 bodies. Of course the lenses will be larger for the Nikon, especially because they will often be very fast... People demand super fast f/2 and lower lenses, which tends to make the physical size of the lenses bigger. Plus all the lenses regardless of speed have to be optically superb so as not to be out-resolved by the 45 MP sensor on the Z7, and this also tends to make the lenses larger/more optically complex with large elements. If the lenses were made with a more moderate maximum aperture of 2.8 or 4, they could be a little smaller and more proportional to the small Z body. Take a look at this photo and look especially at the size of the lenses compared to the Z body. First you notice how huge that Noct is, but of course it is if it is well made at f/.95. But even the f/2.8 zoom is nearly as big (on the left in the photo). Even if the grip is really nice and comfortable, those lenses will sort of dwarf the Z body. The lens mounted on the camera is an 14-30 f/4 zoom. That lens is a little more proportional to the body. I will say that I really like what they did making that Z mount so big and oversized, because it should make it easier to control vignetting for all lenses wide open but also to make ultra-wide angle lenses without the bulbous front element. That 14-30 f/4 looks like it would accept a flat filter in front, and I like that. I think most every current 14mm f-mount lens has the bulbous front element. The 14-30 could be a fantastic landscape lens, TBD depending on distortion, field curvature, flaring, etc.

Dave

 

[Vespobuteo]

Not much joy in there for bird photographers - it seems they have been segmented out of the Mirrorless picture. I can't fathom why the new 500 f5.6 PF wasn't also co-developed as a Z mount. It seems unnecessarily cynical market segment micromanagement. .....

Chosun :gh:

The AF might work fine with the adapter but it's not a pretty solution.
At least it looks as the adapter has the gasket/weather sealing.

https://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/images1/ftz/back-angled.jpg

Just wonder if there will be any pure Z-mount tele lenses.
It will depend on if the cameras will sell I guess.

 

[nikonmike]

Come on you lot you will do what Nikon wants the way Nikon want and be grateful.

 

[Chosun Juan]

The AF might work fine with the adapter but it's not a pretty solution.
At least it looks as the adapter has the gasket/weather sealing.

https://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/images1/ftz/back-angled.jpg

Just wonder if there will be any pure Z-mount tele lenses.
It will depend on if the cameras will sell I guess.

Yes, this is a grindingly slow pace of development from Nikon ....

Using the adapter no doubt works a treat, but introduces another join to have to seal from moisture /dust ingress, and another source of potential 'play' - Nikon has a tripod foot on the adapter suggesting they don't want the additional leverage of adapter + camera hanging off the lens tripod mount and putting all that stress on the adapter joints.

Also, the adapter's additional length and weight kills off a lot of any compactness and weight advantages of the mirrorless system. I suppose it gets to a certain size and weight of telephoto where the ergonomics just become silly anyway. It would have been nice to have say the third party supertelephoto zooms (150-600) available as a native mount, and Nikon's own new PF's too.

The simple (and quick and cheap) way to do this is simply to make a second version of the lens body with a circa ~30mm extension at the mount (native Z) end - not the ultimate in elegance, but not hideous either. Even this solution doesn't appear on Nikon's future lens road map - so it will be at least a 2 year wait (2021+ ....)

Of course the ultimate is to redesign the lens for Z mount without an empty tube at the rear - fully realizing the size and weight advantages. It looks like Nikon thinks this will place too much competitive pressure on its DSLR range - though this first iteration of the mirrorless is hamstrung by no 2nd card slot, small buffer, small shot life from the battery, and ultimately less than DSLR ideal grip ergonomics for the serious big telephoto birder.

Added birding versatility would have been a nice addition though to add to the temptation (particularly with native PF lenses), as the kilo+ weight of the D850 body was ultimately what put me off going down that route ....

Maybe one of the third party lens makers will come up with a killer PF supertelephoto? ..... 600mm PF in f5.6, f4.5, or f4, natively designed for the Z mount ..... there's certainly money and a growth in market share to be made there.

The mirrorless Z mount is obviously a long term proposition having taken nearly half a century to be born .... the beauty for the third party lens makers is that it FFL distance is very close to Sony's FE mirror less mount, so that any lenses designed natively for the Z could easily be modified to natively fit the FE without too much loss of elegance.

Also, if they could get their hands on the Z mount /adapters operating protocols, then there is also the opportunity to design mount adapting teleconverters too - I would suggest a profitable one would be a 2x one for Canon's 300 f2.8 to both Nikon Z and Sony FE mount, etc. You could also add a 1.4x one for Nikon's new 500 f5.6 to both Nikon Z and Sony FE mount ..... + whatever mount solution Canon eventually comes up with for their FF mirrorless offering .....

Overall, I think Nikon has missed a trick for birders to stop the leakage to the smaller, lighter MFT systems ..... :cat:





Chosun :gh: