New Zeiss binos 8x40 SFL and 10x40 SFL (2 Viewers)

[Paultricounty]

Not my experience. Cant imagine smoother focuser, in either direction, then is on either my EL or NL. Cant speak for the SLC

It seems obvious to me that we really only hear about the few bad specimens or variants that people get and don’t hear much from the vast majority of EL owners that have excellent focusers. Between the half dozen EL’s I’ve had and still own three as well as close to another half dozen I’ve had the pleasure of using, only one had a slight stiction.

Id agree with Brock (🤮) that the EDG is probably one of the the best focusers and at least equal to the SF’s , with the Noctivids and NL’s a close second. As far as the focuser on the conquests and other binoculars with very fast focusers its very subjective, I think you get used to it after a short time because of how well an optic like the Conquest snaps right into focus, there’s not a lot of hunting like a less expensive optic. It also has to do with what magnification you’re using, the 10x focus is a little bit thin, and of course another factor is what type of observing you’re doing. Interesting note ,maybe not surprising, the GPO passion HD focuser is almost identical to the Zeiss conquests.

Paul

 

[GrampaTom]

It seems obvious to me that we really only hear about the few bad specimens or variants that people get and don’t hear much from the vast majority of EL owners that have excellent focusers.

This is a well known... ah... thing, among quality management types. People prefer to complain, for some "reason." Though not sure the reason is all that rational. Satisfied users are way less likely to be vocal, report. They just go do/use. Human nature maybe? It was one of the arguments from the Total Quality Management movement in the '80's, (much of which I hope is still being taught), for very liberal return service policies, sorta like Swaro's today. A TQM oriented company rather than being defensive about failure, values those complaints, wants them. By collecting, analyzing, and fixing, they reduce failure cost (warranty repairs are very expensive for example), and increase customer satisfaction leading to more sales. Think EL dominance among expensive binos many here report on that "what bino did you see today" thread.

I feel similarly about what you report. This is an online forum, we gotta have something to talk about. Thats a different thing from just going birding. There was an exchange a few weeks back where one of the members here declared he didn't care to read positive reports about binos as only the critical ones had value to him... or some such. Sorry if my recollection is flawed.

 

[Scott98]

I suspect the "variation" is in people's body parts more than the binos. Strong-fingered folk may not notice focuser differences like the skinny weak-boned people I think. The EL focusers, I've tried 5-6 pairs here and at the store in the last year, were all way too stiff for me. So were the Swaro CL's. Tension was too high, some of them had a "lumpy" feeling like getting over a hump at certain points. The EL's asymmetic tension is something I've never seen in any focuser before and most unwelcome.

Swaro and Leica both seem to have upgraded their focusers in moving from EL to NL and UVHD to Noctivid. Coming from astronomy telescopes, where all the upper-tier scope makers moved to Starlight Instruments Feathertouch over the last 20 years, these focusers were a rude wake-up call, I couldn't believe this was Swaro and Leica's best on $2000+ instruments. Leica UVHD are even stiffer than EL and sticky and "notchy". All the expensive astro scopes come with focuser action like the EDG and Zeiss SF's.

 

[GrampaTom]

I suspect the "variation" is in people's body parts more than the binos. Strong-fingered folk may not notice focuser differences like the skinny weak-boned people I think. The EL focusers, I've tried 5-6 pairs here and at the store in the last year, were all way too stiff for me. So were the Swaro CL's. Tension was too high, some of them had a "lumpy" feeling like getting over a hump at certain points. The EL's asymmetic tension is something I've never seen in any focuser before and most unwelcome.

Swaro and Leica both seem to have upgraded their focusers in moving from EL to NL and UVHD to Noctivid. Coming from astronomy telescopes, where all the upper-tier scope makers moved to Starlight Instruments Feathertouch over the last 20 years, these focusers were a rude wake-up call, I couldn't believe this was Swaro and Leica's best on $2000+ instruments. Leica UVHD are even stiffer than EL and sticky and "notchy". All the expensive astro scopes come with focuser action like the EDG and Zeiss SF's.

Well, OK. Fingers move as the result of nerves and muscles. Just like any limb, use them, train them and things change. Amazing little organs. As so many have written here so many times, trying in the store is very limited. There may be a break-in required of the physical product. There may be the need to just go use and get used to it.... Thinking about the above 901 and 902, there is that baby and bathwater thing and the need to report the negative rather than train a bit.

Hopefully that doesn't offend Scott.

 

[Paultricounty]

Well, OK. Fingers move as the result of nerves and muscles. Just like any limb, use them, train them and things change. Amazing little organs. As so many have written here so many times, trying in the store is very limited. There may be a break-in required of the physical product. There may be the need to just go use and get used to it.... Thinking about the above 901 and 902, there is that baby and bathwater thing and the need to report rather than train a bit.

Hopefully that doesn't offend Scott.

Scott’s a good guy, he doesn’t get offended that easily. I agree with him on the improvements made to the focusers on the SF and NL’s, but I think that has spoiled us as to what is good still good. I also know that some brand new units do need to be broken in a bit , whether they are lubricated or greaseless. My NL, had a little rough spot that worked it’s way out in a few sessions, and now is amazing and as good as anything else. I will ad that the UVHD+ has improved, but it’s a different type focuser. Same with the EL’s that have been improved on the SV’s. All the ones I’ve tried were excellent, heavy maybe, but I have others that are heavier , so that’s not something that bothers me. Some focusers that do bother me , are the ones that are very light and fast.

 

[brocknroller]

Not my experience. Cant imagine smoother focuser, in either direction, then is on either my EL or NL. Cant speak for the SLC

As I mentioned in my post, the NL's focuser was a new design, not the traditional "two-tone stiction" non-greased focuser that Swaro made for decades. The CL's focuser is also new.

But you say the focuser your EL is smooth in either direction. Is it an SV EL? I haven't tried the SV and have no interest in it due to the "rolling ball" mustache distortion, but the SV ELs focuser speed is faster than the originals. The 2001 8.5x EL took about 2 1/2 turns from close focus to infinity. Too pokey. And too hard to turn one way than the other.

Brock

 

[GrampaTom]

But you say the focuser your EL is smooth in either direction. Is it an SV EL? I haven't tried the SV and have no interest in it due to the "rolling ball" mustache distortion, but the SV ELs focuser speed is faster than the originals. The 2001 8.5x EL took about 2 1/2 turns from close focus to infinity. Too pokey. And too hard to turn one way than the other.

Brock

Yes SV EL.

 

[Conndomat]

Swaro and Leica both seem to have upgraded their focusers in moving from EL to NL and UVHD to Noctivid. Coming from astronomy telescopes, where all the upper-tier scope makers moved to Starlight Instruments Feathertouch over the last 20 years, these focusers were a rude wake-up call, I couldn't believe this was Swaro and Leica's best on $2000+ instruments. Leica UVHD are even stiffer than EL and sticky and "notchy". All the expensive astro scopes come with focuser action like the EDG and Zeiss SF's.

Well, then the Takahashi focusers are probably on the level of an EL focuser, nothing with Starlight Feathertouch, but the scopes are still being bought like crazy.

For many people the focus action is not that important thing, but whether the focuser is fundamentally solid and that is the case with the Ultravids, EL's and also with Takahashi, so don't worry, be happy.

 

[GrampaTom]

Dont know how to make these pics smaller. Any help would be appreciated. Do we know this publication? Relative to the convo on focusers (we can lose our way from time to time, ahem), check out the inset illustration of the EL vs NL innards below

 

[tenex]

Dont know how to make these pics smaller. Any help would be appreciated.

Click "Attach files" instead of "Insert image", or resize with photo software before inserting.

 

[John A Roberts]

Hi Tom,

Swarovski produces a set of annual magazines entitled 'Closer'. They're available on-line at: SWAROVSKI OPTIK

The images are from the 2022 Outdoor and Birding edition. The comparative image of the EL and NL internals that you've uploaded,
shows the details better than the on-line version:



Would a clearer still version be possible? (I made a minor tweak to the sharpness in the above version).


John


p.s. I previously linked to content from the the magazines at: Material Composition of NL x42 vs EL SV x42

 

[GrampaTom]

Hi Tom,

Swarovski produces a set of annual magazines with the title 'Closer'. The're available on-line at: SWAROVSKI OPTIK

The images are from the 2022 Outdoor and Birding edition. The comparative image of the EL and NL internals that you've uploaded,
shows the details better than the on-line version:

View attachment 1510611

Would a clearer still version be possible? (I made a minor tweak to the sharpness in the above version).


John


p.s. I previously linked to content from the the magazines at: Material Composition of NL x42 vs EL SV x42

Yes thanks John,
I received a paper copy of this one, and another "Closure" issue labeled, "The Hunting Magazine From Swarovski Optik." Both are quite nicely done. Did not know these existed, but came with last bino purchase. The EL/NL pic accompanied an article about the development of the NL, also interesting. I took these quick shots with Iphone, perhaps could do better with bit of care?? Folks here might enjoy the whole article? Ive a question or two bout this. Ill email you...
Tom

 

[Scott98]

Well, OK. Fingers move as the result of nerves and muscles. Just like any limb, use them, train them and things change. Amazing little organs. As so many have written here so many times, trying in the store is very limited. There may be a break-in required of the physical product. There may be the need to just go use and get used to it.... Thinking about the above 901 and 902, there is that baby and bathwater thing and the need to report the negative rather than train a bit.

Hopefully that doesn't offend Scott.

Thick skin!! I can't be offended. On the contrary I hope I haven't flogged my obsession with smooth focusers to death in these forums .....when you've said something 10 times it's probably enough!

 

[ZDHart]

One of my Victory SF bins had a spot of slight roughness for the first day or so of use, then quickly smoothed out to the typically wonderful Zeiss focusing smoothness.

I don't have any older UVHD bins, but my three fairly recent production (last few years) UVHD+ bins all have very smooth and even focusing - quite nice.

 

[Hermann]

It seems obvious to me that we really only hear about the few bad specimens or variants that people get and don’t hear much from the vast majority of EL owners that have excellent focusers. Between the half dozen EL’s I’ve had and still own three as well as close to another half dozen I’ve had the pleasure of using, only one had a slight stiction.

In that case I got to see (and try out) more than my fair share of mediocre to bad focusers.

Id agree with Brock (🤮) that the EDG is probably one of the the best focusers and at least equal to the SF’s , with the Noctivids and NL’s a close second.

I've got an old HG-L (8x32), and after all those years (and a lot of use) the focuser is still very smooth with no play at all. Just about perfect.

Hermann

 

[GrampaTom]

Hi Tom,

Swarovski produces a set of annual magazines entitled 'Closer'. They're available on-line at: SWAROVSKI OPTIK

The images are from the 2022 Outdoor and Birding edition. The comparative image of the EL and NL internals that you've uploaded,
shows the details better than the on-line version:

View attachment 1510611

Would a clearer still version be possible? (I made a minor tweak to the sharpness in the above version).


John


p.s. I previously linked to content from the the magazines at: Material Composition of NL x42 vs EL SV x42

John suggested it would be good to re-link the Swaro, article (he posted many months ago), on NL development from this issue of Closer: Peter Oettl & Dale Forbes