New Product Introduction Today From Swarovski ? (4 Viewers)

[henry link]

A little Googling revealed that there is no authorized Swarovski dealer on Swarovski's official dealer list located in Folsom, CA or in area code 95630, the address of the eBay business Intertwined-Shopping that Dennis linked to. Besides Swarovski Optik products they claim to sell a variety of other things like clothing, shoes watches, etc.

For what it's worth this also turned up in the Google search.

https://www.revdex.com/reviews/intertwined-shopping/1144523

Clearly the buyer should beware.

 

[Dennis Mau]

The ad notes that delivery dates are Aug 3-17th, depending.
So with a bit of hand waving, after mid August, they have your money and will expect you to wait till Sept 1.
Pretty good scam imho.

I think you are correct. A good scam. I agree. You have to really look at the feedback % when a seller sells as much as they do. 98.2% might appear to be pretty good but that is still a lot of negative feedbacks. I would highly recommend Eurooptics as a very good honest Swarovski dealer. I have purchased several Swarovski binocular's from them, and they were always perfect. They are offering 10% off on pre-orders.

https://www.eurooptic.com/

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

Justin, post 711,
I do not quite understand your comments with regard to the comparison between the Zeiss HT and the Swarovision EL 8,5x42. I wrote in that test report comparing these binoculars that you can see a difference in brightness and that is not so strange since the transmission differences are large enough to allow this, see the test report on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor.
I assume that you made a typing error and where you wrote HT you perhaps meant the NL.
With regard to that matter: both Jan van Daalen and myself and in the meantime also others observed a difference in brightness between the NL 10x42 and the EL-SV 10x42. Considering the probably very small difference in transmission between both binoculars other reasons must be taken into account. One of the may be the difference in overall color balance between both binoculars, but we will now more when both binoculars are investigated in more detail.
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[jring]

Edge performance, its perception by us users, and its desirability in binoculars is one of these subjects that deserves a separate thread. I've read, and found very interesting, three discussions on field flatteners (here , here and here). One thing I don't fully understand, though, is that, per this post by jring, "in order to get edge to edge sharpness over a wide true field of view, field flatteners are very much necessary". Yet it seems possible to design binoculars with a large/very large sweet spot without the use of field flattening lenses. Can anyone explain how a large sweet spot without the use of field flatteners is achieved?

Hi,

let me elaborate - edge performance in any instrument is governed by a few things:

- aberrations like coma or astigmatism introduced by the design - they are tradeoffs in the performance of the instrument far off the optical axis that the designer has accepted - probably in return for some other benefits. These we can't do anything about except redesign with other compromises - the edges will be fuzzy.

- aberrations due to manufacturing flaws - same as above, but another example of the same model might work better. Time for some quality control...

- field curvature - this is the main culprit for most binoculars and can be recognized by the fact that you can refocus a bit to get a perfectly sharp edge and a blurry center. The reason is that the focal plane of an objective lens consisting of spherical lenses is usually not an actual plane but a part of a spherical surface - its radius is called the Petzval radius.

The amount you get (or rather whether the Petzval radius is very large and the curvature inside the field is small) is governed by the objective design and the focal length. Since usually binoculars have quite short focal lengths and tend not to have four or more element flat field objectives, they tend to have quite a lot of it.

Here's some maths on it if you are so inclined...

https://www.telescope-optics.net/curvature.htm

On the other hand, binoculars usually are rather low magnification and the resulting depth of field will allow for a certain part of that spherical surface to be still in focus.

This is called the sweet spot. You could of course always limit the field of view so it is as narrow as the sweet spot, but of course we like wide angle views, so this is not a good option.

Enter the field flattener (aka sub aperture corrector): this is an additional lens (or nowadays rather a group) inserted far behind the objective but before the focal plane and will counteract field curvature - much like the aperture sized correction group in a quadruplet or quintuplet flat field objective but with less glass and thus weight.

https://www.telescope-optics.net/field_flattener.htm

Joachim

 

[PYRTLE]

I think you are correct. A good scam. I agree. You have to really look at the feedback % when a seller sells as much as they do. 98.2% might appear to be pretty good but that is still a lot of negative feedbacks. I would highly recommend Eurooptics as a very good honest Swarovski dealer. I have purchased several Swarovski binocular's from them, and they were always perfect. They are offering 10% off on pre-orders.

https://www.eurooptic.com/

Perhaps then we should resist putting up commercial offers and "amazing deals" from unknown sources or overegging a favoured supplier. By all means recommend a reliable outlet but dont go ballistic please. Thankfully someone did some digging and discovery.
For me, a good dealer is a "shop type" business that has knowledge of, demonstrates and offers a range of products and has sufficient stock, rather than just a warehouse taking your card details and shipping them out, for a few dollars less than a staffed showroom premise.

EDIT: EUROOPTICS.COM is primarily a hunters store selling rifles, and associated equipment Is that accurate Dennis?

 

[dries1]

OH..OH, Dennis you are in big trouble now.

 

[Patudo]

EDIT: EUROOPTICS.COM is primarily a hunters store selling rifles, and associated equipment Is that accurate Dennis?

So what if it is? I'd be more concerned (no, that isn't really the right word, but I struggle to find an appropriate response...) by the following:

Fortunately my supplier said I was first on the list so as soon as Swarovski ships so I should have one before Jan.( I spotted him a few bills to move me up to the top of the list). It makes me wonder if I should have ordered an NL 10x42 and NL 12x42 because if everybody has to wait months for them you might have been able to sell them for some profit to the well-heeled buyers that didn't want to wait. Car dealers do that all the time.

Should dealers be free to accept bungs to move clients up waiting lists? I suppose so, it's a free world, but would you guys feel happy about giving your business to dealers who take money from the likes of denco in that way?

I also wonder how pleased Eurooptics might be to have their practices disclosed on the world wide web in this manner? :cat:


Moving swiftly on...

Gijs,

You confuese the blond Ida, Romee and Conny with angels, but they are not. They are angels in disguiseooo.

Jan

Just a bit different to the typical person behind the counter of a UK optics store then...!!! But how well do your three Angels know their NLs from their NVs? :t:

 

[Vespobuteo]

Anyone tried them in person yet? Swaro seem to have sent out "secret" packages to a bunch of "random" persons...I guess at least someone here should have got a pair?

Similar ergo to the Zeiss HT it seems, which is a good thing.

Eye cups look shallower and better for eye glass wearers. Excellent. Will be needed with the extreme AFOV/FOV.

https://skytte.astrosweden.se/image...swarovski-frp-forehead-rest-till-nl-pure.jpeg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Vy6CDFaVjM

Faster & smoother focus wheel. Very good.

Larger FOV. Yay!

Will glare/flare still be an issue? Hope not.

CA with the huge FOV? Is it really possible to control?

Damn, they look good...

Never found the perfect 10x bins but the NL:s for sure seem like a good candidate.

Forehead rest? Didn't see that one coming...

Price! I guess I have to sell my last kidney.

 

[dries1]

Nl

Anyone tried them in person yet? Swaro seem to have sent out "secret" packages to a bunch of "random" persons...I guess at least someone here should have got a pair?

Similar ergo to the Zeiss HT it seems, which is a good thing.

Eye cups look shallower and better for eye glass wearers. Excellent. Will be needed with the extreme AFOV/FOV.

https://skytte.astrosweden.se/image...swarovski-frp-forehead-rest-till-nl-pure.jpeg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Vy6CDFaVjM

Faster & smoother focus wheel. Very good.

Larger FOV. Yay!

Will glare/flare still be an issue? Hope not.

CA with the huge FOV? Is it really possible to control?

Damn, they look good...

Never found the perfect 10x bins but the NL:s for sure seem like a good candidate.

Forehead rest? Didn't see that one coming...

Price! I guess I have to sell my last kidney.

This pretty much sums it up of what we know about the NLs. :t:

 

[Mark9473]

Anyone tried them in person yet? Swaro seem to have sent out "secret" packages to a bunch of "random" persons...I guess at least someone here should have got a pair?

Odd that you would have missed the other thread, but just in case, here it is: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=391903

 

[Vespobuteo]

Odd that you would have missed the other thread, but just in case, here it is: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=391903

Great, thanks! I did miss it...just discovered the NL:s, didn't realize they had been official since July 1.

 

[RustyHeadedJay]

I’m very curious to know how firm the diopter adjuster is and will hold still. Also if the focus wheel has the same “easier one way than the other” feel to it, and if it’s supported on each side like a motorcycle wheel or just one side like a car wheel.

 

[Dennis Mau]

Patudo. "Should dealers be free to accept bungs to move clients up waiting lists? I suppose so, it's a free world, but would you guys feel happy about giving your business to dealers who take money from the likes of denco in that way?I also wonder how pleased Eurooptics might be to have their practices disclosed on the world wide web in this manner?" That was just a joke.:king: I guess it went over your head!

 

[Dennis Mau]

Perhaps then we should resist putting up commercial offers and "amazing deals" from unknown sources or overegging a favoured supplier. By all means recommend a reliable outlet but dont go ballistic please. Thankfully someone did some digging and discovery.
For me, a good dealer is a "shop type" business that has knowledge of, demonstrates and offers a range of products and has sufficient stock, rather than just a warehouse taking your card details and shipping them out, for a few dollars less than a staffed showroom premise.

EDIT: EUROOPTICS.COM is primarily a hunters store selling rifles, and associated equipment Is that accurate Dennis?

We all differ on what we consider a "good' dealer. Buying binoculars in the US is different from in the UK. For your information, I have purchased a lot of binoculars on eBay and many of them Swarovski's for a considerable discount and never had a problem. Many came from sellers in the UK because the dollar is stronger than the pound. In the US we really don't have many "shop type' businesses that sell binoculars so for many brands we are forced to buy online. For example, you can't even buy any high end Zeiss in the US in shops or stores. That eBay seller selling those NL's may be a bit ambitious with his delivery time promise if Swarovski says they are not releasing any NL's till September 1st but with eBay's as described guarantee I am sure you would still receive your binoculars in a reasonable time frame, and they would be satisfactory. If not you would get your money back. I have never really got screwed on any transactions on eBay and I have made a LOT of them both buying and selling and I have saved a ton of money versus purchasing in a "shop". Eurooptics (https://www.eurooptic.com/) sells very high quality firearms, binoculars, rangefinders, spotting scopes, rifle scopes and other hunting gear, and they are an excellent dealer.

 

[eronald]

It's usual in the "luxury" market for stuff to be "out of stock", and your getting an item being presented as a "favor" by the dealer. A salesman in that area indicated to me that working for a firm selling a french leather brand starting with "H", sales assistants were under orders not to sell a wallet, bag etc to any "normal" people coming in to buy eg. a retirement present for a colleague because you don't want "that sort of customers". Said this policy cost the salespeople a lot of commission.

I haven't had any real serious issues on ebay, but one the other hand I've had a good proportion of transactions go sideways for a while, to the point where I think it's not always worth the bother. But sometimes there are positive surprises. Also on the positive side, every single low-dollar transaction I've done for an item from China at about 10-30% of European store price with free shipping thrown in —tools, painting accessories etc— has gone perfectly with the goods mostly better than expected.

You wanna buy optics —$3000 camera lenses or binoculars— my feeling is you need to see what you're getting and take it with you. I don't know whether retailers provide a "service" generally, but I think the customer needs this single feature for optics.

Edmund

 

[Chosun Juan]

We all differ on what we consider a "good' dealer.....

Pretty sure I know a good dealer when I see :eek!: one .... ! :bounce: :hippy: 3






Chosun :gh:

 

[Rotherbirder]

Saw the NL Pure 'unboxing' video at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCEqkIO3WvY today. Until now I thought that the soap and brush accessories were a just a joke until I watched it! This is Swarovski pushing the elite, luxury brand thing a little too far for me. I've never needed a branded Swarovski nail-brush to clean my ELs, but perhaps they - and I - are now 'not worthy'!? Maybe they are provided so that owners can scrub their hands before touching the hallowed binocular? In any event, I suppose they have got to justify the truly enormous price tag somehow.

RB

 

[PYRTLE]

We all differ on what we consider a "good' dealer.

Eurooptics (https://www.eurooptic.com/) sells very high quality firearms, binoculars, rangefinders, spotting scopes, rifle scopes and other hunting gear, and they are an excellent dealer.

Thanks for your transparent reply to my asking.

 

[Gijs van Ginkel]

Rotherbirder, post 737,
Binoculars used in DEET covered hands damage their rubber armor quicky. I assume that soap and brush is also used to clean the binocular armor to prevent DEET damage for example. It must be cheaper for Swarovski then the application (for free) of new rubber armor.
Gijs van Ginkel

 

[jan van daalen]

Saw the NL Pure 'unboxing' video at: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCEqkIO3WvY today. Until now I thought that the soap and brush accessories were a just a joke until I watched it! This is Swarovski pushing the elite, luxury brand thing a little too far for me. I've never needed a branded Swarovski nail-brush to clean my ELs, but perhaps they - and I - are now 'not worthy'!? Maybe they are provided so that owners can scrub their hands before touching the hallowed binocular? In any event, I suppose they have got to justify the truly enormous price tag somehow.

RB

That's one way to look at itB

Jan