Nature Photography and disturbance (1 Viewer)

[Marcus Conway - ebirder]

Just out of interest, what is it that "photographers" are doing that is causing the mortality?

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At Donna Nook issues included

-separating mothers from calves whilst attempting to get shots by getting too close
- additional stress put on seals by photographers arriving before dawn and leaving after sunset when the seals can't see what is moving around
- walking through the seal groups with cameras and tripods over the shoulder. I saw one BF member and well known photographer scatter over 200 Grey Seals by walking straight through them (not a beginner)
- using wide angle lenses and needing to get too close - literally feet to a pup
- there was a 'story' that one group actually picked up a cub to have their picture taken with it.

The major issue I believe is around separation of pups from mothers that then results in freezing and starvation as well as movement of large groups of seals causing pups to be crushed.

Some of the above was caused by poor behaviour, some by selfishness and some by lack of education.

You can have whatever license and codes you think are useful but for some - and its a small minority - they wont care and will do what is required to get a shot.

 

[Hyrax]

Seconded. In my area we do have a fine spot for waders - a quite large sandbank. Problem is that it's placed right in front of a tourist beach. During summer it's overcrowded, can't be otherwise, but during wintertime it should be perfect for feeding or roosting birds. Again, dog walkers, shell collectors, kitesurfers, joggers etc seem to make an extensive use of that very spot, whilst they could move 100m away and enjoy their activities - nobody seems to pay attention or act accordingly, given that it's part of a protected natural area.... So sad.

At Dawlish Warren in Devon I have seen people walk their dogs in front of the hide, past massive signs that explicitly state you must not go here because you will disturb the birds. How do you fight that? :-C

 

[Robin Edwards]

It's difficult and is likely to meet with some adverse reaction but if a dog walker tried to walk in fron't of the hide at DW when I was in the hide they would not be very happy with my polite but forceful reaction.

A similar thing happend to me earlier in the year in Abenethy where local dog walkers were ignoring the signs to keep their dogs on leads. Some polite intervention worked although was slightly confrontational and I accept that not all birders will want to confront people.

I find it most frustrating that Marcus indicates that a well-known photographer was not following good practice whereby in my view, these situations warrant naming the offenders otherwise nothing changes.

 

[Marcus Conway - ebirder]

I find it most frustrating that Marcus indicates that a well-known photographer was not following good practice whereby in my view, these situations warrant naming the offenders otherwise nothing changes.

Hi Robin,

I spoke to the person at the time and he said he was looking for Sanderling and hadn't realised what he had done.

In the Highlands I am in the process of reporting some anglers for diver disturbance.

With all these things it can be hard to draw the line of what is deliberate

A few years ago I suffered the wrath of some Yorkshire birders for being too close to a Short Eared Owl nest. I had no idea I was anywhere near the nest - in fact I had watched the Owl drop food into a site on the other side of the valley so thought I was over a mile away. I was mortified, apologetic and embarrassed that I could have missed something so obvious. I am glad they spoke to me at the time and after they could see it was a genuine mistake on my part and I met with them on several evenings after to watch and photograph the owls. The owls had three young which successfully fledged.

 

[lmans66]

My thinking is that there is an 'extreme' to anything. For instance, if we are talking about disturbing nature, nesting etc etc... Any one of us disturbs nature on a 'daily' basis. All I have to do is walk down my street and in the process I am disturbing some bird trying to forage for a worm, or I walk underneath a tree with a 'nest' in it. So disturbance of nature is part of living.

So in the above example when you were walking near a owls nest (and were not aware of it) ...those people were going overboard in chastising you. Now, perhaps if you didn't carry a pair of bino's or camera etc...they would have let you off as being not aware. But by the fact you most probably did have one, they feel you should have known. Hogwash...

When I enter a place I have never been before, just because I have a pair of bino's or my scope or camera...I have no idea where nests or birding areas are, so get off my back. I will respect those if I know they are there but don't assume from the start. right?

But the person who was looking for a Sanderling or the photographer disturbing 200 seals etc... well, yes...they were in the wrong.

 

[Ashley beolens]

At Donna Nook issues included

-separating mothers from calves whilst attempting to get shots by getting too close
- additional stress put on seals by photographers arriving before dawn and leaving after sunset when the seals can't see what is moving around
- walking through the seal groups with cameras and tripods over the shoulder. I saw one BF member and well known photographer scatter over 200 Grey Seals by walking straight through them (not a beginner)
- using wide angle lenses and needing to get too close - literally feet to a pup
- there was a 'story' that one group actually picked up a cub to have their picture taken with it.

The major issue I believe is around separation of pups from mothers that then results in freezing and starvation as well as movement of large groups of seals causing pups to be crushed.

Some of the above was caused by poor behaviour, some by selfishness and some by lack of education.

You can have whatever license and codes you think are useful but for some - and its a small minority - they wont care and will do what is required to get a shot.

Thanks for clearing that up, truely shocking accounts of people with no sense of what they are actually doing.

 

[Robin Edwards]

Hi Robin,

I spoke to the person at the time and he said he was looking for Sanderling and hadn't realised what he had done.

In the Highlands I am in the process of reporting some anglers for diver disturbance.

With all these things it can be hard to draw the line of what is deliberate

A few years ago I suffered the wrath of some Yorkshire birders for being too close to a Short Eared Owl nest. I had no idea I was anywhere near the nest - in fact I had watched the Owl drop food into a site on the other side of the valley so thought I was over a mile away. I was mortified, apologetic and embarrassed that I could have missed something so obvious. I am glad they spoke to me at the time and after they could see it was a genuine mistake on my part and I met with them on several evenings after to watch and photograph the owls. The owls had three young which successfully fledged.

Points taken Marcus.

I guess it comes down to making that judgement between in your case, an innocent and genuine mistake and one based on ignorance where the offender should have known better. If a "known" offender who cares little about his/her impact on wildlife then they deserve to be named and reported.

I think there is a general imbalance where people believe they have a born right to do whatever they see fit rather than an obligation to the people and natural world around them. Some of it of course comes down to lack of education/understanding, but from my experiance, some is also down to simple pig-ignorance. Those that I accosted in Abenethy fell fair-and-square into the latter camp and thought they were above the law, the signs applying to someone else.

 

[Marcus Conway - ebirder]

This sort of thing was pretty normal.

The approach would take anything from 5 minutes to one hour or longer. The animal wasn't distressed (as much as we can interpret these things) and after having a small sleep returned to mum. As a one off occurrence not an issue, with the photographer showing great fieldcraft and consideration for others.

The problem arises when he removes himself slowly and the next guy starts crawling in - now repeat for 300 or so people each time the beach is open.

I do not know the person in the picture, but I can say he had sympathetic fieldcraft and spent only a few minutes getting some shots before reversing.

 

[Robin Edwards]

Photographs of wildlife in close-up doesn't preclude that the subject was disturbed or stressed but I can't help thinking that if the breeding Atlantic Grey Seals were for a moment replaced by say, nesting Barn Owls then close encroachment for photography no matter how much care is shown, would I believe require a licence so the question is, should this be extended to cover these situations or does the legislation already cater but just isn't invoked?

I must admit to stealing some realtively close-up images of Grey Wagtail that I found nesting this spring at a particularly odd location (inside the door of a lock on the river) that was forever prone to disturbance each time a boat passed. I used good field craft taking ages to approach, got some shots and backed away within 2 or 3 minutes but I still felt that I was getting too close - despite all the boating fraternity walking within feet of the nest and in most cases, not even noticing the birds. For me, whether the species is afforded special protection doesn't really factor, I would want to apply and advocate the same respect in all cases.

 

[Andy Hurley]

This sort of thing was pretty normal.

The approach would take anything from 5 minutes to one hour or longer. The animal wasn't distressed (as much as we can interpret these things) and after having a small sleep returned to mum. As a one off occurrence not an issue, with the photographer showing great fieldcraft and consideration for others.

The problem arises when he removes himself slowly and the next guy starts crawling in - now repeat for 300 or so people each time the beach is open.

I do not know the person in the picture, but I can say he had sympathetic fieldcraft and spent only a few minutes getting some shots before reversing.

Good fieldcraft aside, is it really necessary to get this close? Surely a longer lens would be be just as good, unless maybe he was looking for lice, ticks etc. If this was a professional photograper at work, then its hardly suprising that amateurs try to emulate such activity. They think, if he can do it, then so can I. People like this individual set precedents for others. Bad precedents.

Andy

 

[Marcus Conway - ebirder]

Good fieldcraft aside, is it really necessary to get this close? Surely a longer lens would be be just as good, unless maybe he was looking for lice, ticks etc. If this was a professional photograper at work, then its hardly suprising that amateurs try to emulate such activity. They think, if he can do it, then so can I. People like this individual set precedents for others. Bad precedents.

Andy

The photographer is using a wide angle lens to photograph a landscape shot, with I imagine the seal positioned in the frame for composition/effect. For the shot to be effective he needs to be this close with this type of lens. I do not know the photographer but I doubt he was a professional.

 

[Andy Hurley]

Thanks Marcus,
its a case of me me me and to hell with nature as long as I get my shot then. And for what ? A forgotten picture in a photo album at worst and a photo on the wall at best.

Andy

 

[pppppvvvv]

Steady Andy. You're beginning to sound like me!

 

[Ian Hay]

Donna Nook

I have seen many comments from photographers saying why they will not go back to Donna Nook now the rules are in place and now it has been shown that they photographers are causing mortality in the outer colony, I have a different outlook.

I made my first trip to Donna Nook last November and have to say the place is still great for photographing seals, just follow the rules.

For those who have not been the seal colony is split in 2 with the majority of animals breeding in the dunes. The outer colony is were the problem is and to get to it requires jumping the fence and walking a long way, simply do not do it.

The majority of seals breed next to, and some times pushed up against the fence in the dunes that has been built to seperate people from seals and vice versa, so you can still photograph them from 10cm if you wish remaining on the human side of the fence. The area is patroled by a warden and volunteers and is at times very busy(many thousands of people visit each year with no harm caused).

I get the feeling you need to be a bit more creative within the fenced area and you may well have someone try to give you CPR if laying down to get a low angle shot, however millions of photos have been taken from the outer collany so why not get something new.

From talking to the wardens the last thing they want is for people to stop going to the site at all, just stay within the fenced area. The warden I talked to also suggested that it you really wanted to photograph seals at the outer colony then they would be happy for you to do so from march onwards when the pups are bigger stronger so are at a much lower risk. (please call the site first to confirm this has not changed).

I have attached a few photos I took last year from within the fenced area, breaking no rules, in one case with my 2 year old son sitting on my back jumping up and down.

Oh and if you do go there is a collection box to help with the Linconshire Wildlife Trusts work, Hint.

Ian

 

[lmans66]

Why are people abusing the rules so blatantly? I know many areas in the world where breeding grounds are off limits and that is just accepted. Why different here?

 

[Ian Hay]

In my view cos people want to take the photo they saw rather than come up with there own version.

In reality i think people travelling along way either for a course or on there own then being surprised that they cannot go were they like played a big part. Also guides who have organised tours would have been under pressure especially as the ban/i think/was quite late.

I expect/hope that the numbers this year will be way down as most people know the rules in advance

Ian

 

[Ashley beolens]

Excellent images Ian and just shows you don't need to risk disturbing the chaps in the outer colony to get some cracking photos.

 

[666taz]

I dont agree with any person photographer or birder upsetting wildlife i take time and a lot of fieldcraft to get close to a subject i want to photograph but never get close enough to upset the subject im photographing .What is annoying is this thread seems to be tarring all photographers as unfeeling towards wildlife.I have seen and heard of birders flushing birds just so they can see them and having what they call organised flushes just because they carnt see the bird they have gone to see which i feel i wrong but i wouldnt start to say all birders were like that just because of the few who are so please dont tar all photographer as been unfeeling cheers Phill.