Melanitta Fusca and Melanitta Deglandi difference ? (1 Viewer)

[Xelioszzapporro!!]

Another duck identification thread. This time we have Scoters. The Melanitta Deglandi which apparently is called White-winged Scoter and the Melanitta Fusca which is called Velvet Scoter even though it also has white in it's wings....

So I can't really tell them apart. Neither male with male....nor female with female.....I only know that the Melanitta Deglandi dwells in North America while Melanitta Fusca dwells in Europe.....if somebody knows how can I tell the physical difference between the males in appearance and the physical difference between the females in appearance then please let me know it would be very helpful to me!!!

So this is the male and female Melanitta Deglandi (white-winged Scoter)




And this is the male and female Melanitta Fusca (Velvet Scoter)



@Bewick @Joern Lehmhus @qwerty5 @aeshna5 @Jeff Hopkins @Stephen Dunstan @jurek @Southern Viking @TheBlackGrouse @nartreb @foresttwitcher @Earnest lad @Welsh Peregrine @THE_FERN

 

[Stephen Dunstan]

The males aren't that difficult seen as well as in these pictures. The bill colours are different, as are the bill shapes and the white extends high up behind the eye on deglandi. Viewing a distant bird on the sea may be altogether different.

Females are tougher and not sure the picture of the Velvet above is good enough to see the differences in feathering around the bill.

There is also a third species in this complex - Melanitta stejnegeri / Stejneger's Scoter. Are you looking for pointers for that as well or does it not occur where you are?

 

[Southern Viking]

There is also a third species in this complex - Melanitta stejnegeri / Stejneger's Scoter. Are you looking for pointers for that as well or does it not occur where you are?

Some of the recent postings by the OP were asking for ID pointers on Hawaiian Duck, Madagascar Pochard, Mottled Duck, Lesser Scaup, Crested Duck and Eurasian Wigeon, so I'm guessing the queries aren't all relevant to the New Zealand flag under the name

 

[Stephen Dunstan]

Some of the recent postings by the OP were asking for ID pointers on Hawaiian Duck, Madagascar Pochard, Mottled Duck, Lesser Scaup, Crested Duck and Eurasian Wigeon, so I'm guessing the queries aren't all relevant to the New Zealand flag under the name

Indeed, I just wasn't sure why it wasn't part of the question and was trying to hazard a guess...

 

[Welsh Peregrine]

Having seen a vagrant White-winged with Velvets in Scotland; the key points are indeed the bill colour and shape; it needs very good viewing conditions and close birds!

 

[Xelioszzapporro!!]

The males aren't that difficult seen as well as in these pictures. The bill colours are different, as are the bill shapes and the white extends high up behind the eye on deglandi. Viewing a distant bird on the sea may be altogether different.

Yes indeed males display those 3 differences that you mentioned but what about the female differences in feathering around the bill ?
Can you explain to me...

Having seen a vagrant White-winged with Velvets in Scotland; the key points are indeed the bill colour and shape; it needs very good viewing conditions and close birds!

I see. So the Melanitta Deglandis (White winged) travel to North Europe too.
Also in which parts of the Scotlands did you saw both species. Can you please tell me the place ? I will probably visit it.

 

[Welsh Peregrine]

It was at Musselburgh near Edinburgh. In my opinion it is the best place for reliable close views of Velvet. The White-winged was one of the first British records, and there has also been Stejneger’s there.

 

[Xelioszzapporro!!]

It was at Musselburgh near Edinburgh. In my opinion it is the best place for reliable close views of Velvet. The White-winged was one of the first British records, and there has also been Stejneger’s there.

Awesome thanks man! So do the 2 Scoter species dwell at Musselburgh all the year or only some particular months ?

 

[Welsh Peregrine]

Winter is best; you are all but guaranteed Velvet, and Long-tailed Duck. Surf Scoter is likely, for the two rarest (white-winged and Stejneger’s) wait for rare bird reports.

 

[Xelioszzapporro!!]

Hey fellas thank you all for the info about the ducks and the additional info that Welsh provided about their location.
Though I still don't know the difference of the females.....like I learned the male differences and how to tell'em apart....but not the females yet.

If somebody knows how to tell those 2 female duck species apart please let me know. I would highly appreciate it.

 

[Welsh Peregrine]

Martin Garner’s Birding Frontiers Winter covers the differences exceptionally well.

 

[Larry Sweetland]

Yes indeed males display those 3 differences that you mentioned but what about the female differences in feathering around the bill ?
Can you explain to me...



I see. So the Melanitta Deglandis (White winged) travel to North Europe too.
Also in which parts of the Scotlands did you saw both species. Can you please tell me the place ? I will probably visit it.

As has been mentioned, both White-winged and Stejneger's Scoters have been found in Scotland in recent years, but we're talking one or two birds among very large flocks of Velvet and Common Scoters (with a few Surf Scoters too.) Even when knowing the specific location of any recent sightings, you'll need a very good telescope and potentially a lot of time to pick one out from the Velvets, and that's the males.

 

[Stephen Dunstan]

This whilst mostly about a first winter drake includes stuff that may help.

https://www.birdguides.com/articles/rare-birds/rarity-finders-american-white-winged-scoter-on-shetland/

 

[Stephen Dunstan]

And this which is about a female.

https://www.birdguides.com/articles/britain-ireland/rarity-finders-white-winged-scoter-in-co-mayo/

 

[seawatcher]

Having seen two stejnegeri in Europe together with Velvet Scoters, the easiest way I picked them up at long range was by the extent and angle of the white stripe behind the eye. For both birds, I picked up on the shape of the white stripe before I got to grips on the bill shape.
SW