Lothian Birding (2 Viewers)

[WelchS]

The taking of Pipefish in Lothian is very common place, particuarly on the North Sea coast were it seems at times just about every bird has a Pipefish protruding from it's mouth, I have yet to see a yellow legged Herring Gull on that part of the coast however.

Agreed, it must be a local/regional thing. Harbour gulls probably have plenty of other options.

Regarding argentatus arrival times in Lothian, I have looked at Gulls at Musselburgh for at least 6 years now and have noticed that the really dark northern argentatus seem to arrive from late Dec-Jan, that is the really noticable ones, however clearly a movement of these birds non the less as they wern't present the previous weekend or so.
How many of the less noticable ones go unoticed? As I am sure you are aware that many argentatus have a mantle tone not too disimilar to an argenteus.
I tried to work that out at Seafield and Musselburgh one winter by focusing on their wing tip pattern and mantle tone in field conditions. On one or two days at least 10 birds could be picked out, however what if these flocks could all be captured and examined in the hand, then I would be sure that this general total would at least double!

Absolutely. When we say argentatus, or the bird report quotes numbers, I think it's assumed that these are just "obvious" argentatus, i.e. those which are outside the overlap range with argenteus. Many others must also be present and effectively invisible.

As you say you need to look at wing tip and mantle for classic individuals (also head streaking, the two in the harbour ystdy were nearly solid brown on the nape) but there are also light-mantled birds with the northern primary tip pattern, I recall one at Drem a couple of years back which was on the extreme of white in tips but mantle not noticeably dark.

You probably know it, but the essential reading on this subject is the Coulson et al paper, Scandinavian Herring Gulls wintering in Britain, fortunately available online. A bit out of date (1978-1983 study), but still lots of interesting stuff in there from a S Scotland perspective, from the arrival dates, nearly all Nov-Jan and rapid dispersal thereafter, real proportions based on careful examination of captured birds (13000 caught & rung) - 30% argentatus in mid-winter at main NE England study sites, but very few in the west and strong regional variation up the coast, much less in Scotland, and most being adult females (thus the imm argentatus may be less of a problem), and the measured correlation btwn "thayeri" primary tip pattern and mantle shade. This was generally a strong correlation, i.e. you tend to find the two features together, but there was a certain proportion had the northern wing tip but relatively pale mantle typical of argenteus, cf. above comments, and vice versa. Also, in 13k caught not one had yellow legs - may not be the same if repeated now!

Incidentally, I found 4 of these birds at Banchory btwn 1990 & 1993, i.e. those colour-ringed in their study, not sure how many were seen in Lothian.

Although I agree that a very good description is needed for YLG in Scotland as hybrids and dark argentatus do occur, I also feel that the SBRC insistance of getting the fabled all black bar on p5 rather than looking at really good photo's has put the documented spread of this species in Scotland back by at least ten years!

Agreed it is useful to know about birds which in all probability are YLG, as well as a formal record of cast iron proven ones. The bird information services archives do provide this feature to some extent (if you subscribe, they are searchable), but their databases include some dodgy reports too, one I know of for a fact at Seton!

Keep it coming as clearly this is also one of my favourite subjects, although I dont know what others might think

OK, feeling more comfortable to do so on a forum, which those who see them as avian rats can safely ignore; have probably posted too much gull stuff to LBN over the years!

 

[WelchS]

... from the arrival dates, nearly all Nov-Jan and rapid dispersal thereafter, ...

Further to this, a very interesting post to ABZ-birds for 2/11/08:

"Offshore approx 120 nm east of Orkney on Flotel MSV Regalia

Massive build up of herring gulls to boost our already large flock of seamingly resident GBB's. Fantastic sight Friday, on 3 sides of the rig, a carpet of gulls from 20 meters to out beyond the 500mtr zone. thousands of birds, mainly Herring Gulls. Didn't attempt count!"

Also an Iceland Gull with them (c/o Phil Day).

 

[WelchS]

Aye, I stay in Whitburn... I know they've been reported as far west as Lochwinnoch, was kinda hoping more would follow and pop through here or Livingston on the way, but as of yet no such luck! Was going to have a look aroud Linlithgow, in particular the loch, however I think I'll try the places you mentioned around Edinburgh tomorrow first. Thanks for the info :t:

50 SW over Oldcraighall Road in Millerhill 09:30hrs today, perhaps heading for Dalkeith, plus 17 still in Longniddry near the school.

 

[Stuarty]

Well, went almost everywhere they've been sighted in the past wee while today, and saw nothing. To make matters worse, I got to Musselburgh and noticed I'd left my scope in the other car. What a fanny.

 

[Birdspotter]

Waxwing the commonest bird I saw in Edinburgh today!

Had a very smart flock of c400 birds in the Grange area today, with at least 300 around Grange Rd ( near to the junction with Lauder Rd) and another 100 nearby on Sciennes next to The Sick Kids.

I was working on the high tenements roofs of Merchison Cresent and was able to watch them commuting between different gardens in the Grange/Merchison areas, as well as sat up on tall trees within that area.
I think the nearby Blackford flock that I had in the last week or so must be made up from some of these birds.

By afternoon the large morning numbers had fragmented into several roving flocks, at times they were everywhere:t:
A favourite area was what I presumed was a Juniper tree, on the corner of Cumin Place and Grange Rd

By late afternoon I had to move on to another job, this time to Spylaw Road off Colinton Rd, however I even had a flock of 100+ in this area.

A group of c100 was also back at Wester Broom, Corstorphine so they have not left this area of the city yet for pastures new just yet.

In the last week or so I have found myself around 600 of these fantastic gems, numbers are building up all the time, but no what I call super flocks reported just yet, that is flocks consisting of 1000+ birds, but the way it is going, perhaps soon!

So yes by far the commonest bird I have seen in Edinburgh today!:t:

 

[markgrubb]

So yes by far the commonest bird I have seen in Edinburgh today!:t:

Cue delivery of prozac to West Lothian

 

[Birdspotter]

Cue delivery of prozac to West Lothian

Never mind the prozac Mark, a good look at a Waxwing will cure all depression

 

[Stuarty]

I think I must be doing it wrong!

 

[Birdspotter]

Waxwing's seen today were 80 over Chamberlain Rd and 20 over nearby at Rochester Terrace, 20 over Mayfield Rd, near West Saville headed towards the Grange area.
All these sightings of roving flocks most likely relate to yesterdays birds.

Away from this area I had a flock of birds numbering c30 over Oxgangs Road North in the Oxgangs area, although they were very distant I am confidant they were Waxwing's.

Also a hybrid Carrion/Hooded by the Oxgangs shops, I have had up to 5 of these birds at once in this area before.

 

[markgrubb]

Today was the first day I had the chance to go out birding in Lothian for a while.

Last weekend I volunteered to help out with some remote tetrads deep in Borders region for the Bird Atlas. I felt a bit nervous being in the company of the local recorder and a Birds of Scotland author-I thought my findings might be pitiful compared to theirs but whilst I found fewer species I saw a reasonable variety. Last Sunday am saw a fantastic hoar frost, brilliant crystal blue sky, -6 temp at 9am and no wind. I did 4 tetrads. Highlight was trying to focus on a bird at the front of a small copse. My binoculars were set far past the bird and I saw a shape on a branch against a trunk- a tawny. Also saw 5 nuthatches in 2 tetrads, a fair number of tree sparrows and a far inland redshank alarming on the Tweed. Just great to be out exploring on a lovely day

This am it was dull but dry so decided to head out east. It started raining heavily just past Haddington and by the time I got to Dunbar it was just miserable. An hour in the town and drinking coffee in the car and it seemed to clear. Off to Torness and it started raining in a strong wind. I scanned the fields along the old A1 with not a lot to see. It cleared again and I walked down to Barns Ness seeing little. Back at the car there were masses of gulls circling over the dump. I started to walk up the edge of the stubble field and immediately flushed a bird, smaller than a skylark that gave a too-loo-eep call-never heard that before-I think it was probably a lapland bunting but haven't heard one call and have only seen a few on the ground so I think it has to go down as a possible.....

Back to Edinburgh for some chores. Had the bonus of 100 waxwings raping a rowan tree near Blackford Hill (presumably some of Calum's birds)-sorry Stuarty-a nice end to the day

 

[firecrest9]

Sat 6th Dec

Was down at Yellow Craig at noon today and had a Black Guillemot. The bird was in the sound between Fidra and the beach. It the white dot in the pic. The last time I saw a Black Guillemot in East Lothian was 8 years ago in North Berwick. Seen nothing else of note today. T

 

[G Anderson]

Hi Folks,
It's the all-new me, don't know who that 'area man' was! He's gone now anyway!
Haven't had much this week, a small flock of Waxies at Longniddry on Friday.(Any luck yet Stuarty?)

Today had a look at the River Esk mouth, quite good conditions for looking at gulls. The first thing I noticed was the (presumably same) pale-mantled Common Gull. When I first saw it, with the naked eye, I thought it was an adult Med, it was so pale. Through bins the black wing tips really contrast with the virtually white upperparts!
Got a single Med, adult but no legs visible - looked like the rather dark headed bird seen here this winter. Only 1 Med picked out in maybe 3000 gulls though. Didn't see any LBB Gulls here today, usually a few over-winter here these days. Must admit my gull watching is really in an effort to turn something like a Franklin's up! Don't pay too much attention to the Herring/LBB complex, well done to those who try though!. I am looking for Yellow-legged though, for my Scottish list. When I spent a year and a half on the south coast of England they (adults) could be easily picked out from 'normal' Herrings by their pure white head in winter (and sloping forehead).

Cheers G

 

[Stuarty]

Hi Folks,
It's the all-new me, don't know who that 'area man' was! He's gone now anyway!
Haven't had much this week, a small flock of Waxies at Longniddry on Friday.(Any luck yet Stuarty?)

Afraid not Having a wee blast along to Ikea tomorrow morning so might pop into Oxgangs on the way back as I've heard they've been seen around there. That said, I only ever see things when I'm not looking for them, so might just drive without making an effort to see them!

 

[Birdspotter]

Had a go at Barnbougle again today.

Tide was well out thus the Gulls were spread well out so no real large numbers.

Just 31 Lesser-black Backs all looked to be grellsii except 2 good candidates for intermedius.

One dark mantled Herring Gull present.
Why I never see these types at other places outwith here is beyond me!

 

[Birdspotter]

The first thing I noticed was the (presumably same) pale-mantled Common Gull. When I first saw it, with the naked eye, I thought it was an adult Med, it was so pale. Through bins the black wing tips really contrast with the virtually white upperparts!


Didn't see any LBB Gulls here today, usually a few over-winter here these days. Must admit my gull watching is really in an effort to turn something like a Franklin's up! Don't pay too much attention to the Herring/LBB complex, well done to those who try though!. I am looking for Yellow-legged though, for my Scottish list. When I spent a year and a half on the south coast of England they (adults) could be easily picked out from 'normal' Herrings by their pure white head in winter (and sloping forehead).

Cheers G

Hi Gordon,

Glad you saw the pale Common Gull it's a real star don't you think?
Seeing it at dusk in flight in amonst other Gulls, it's like a ghost!

Glad to see also you are in pursuit of Yellow leggers. I have looked in vain at Musselburgh and Seton Burn for years now, however I know that Mike who posts on here had one at Seton a couple of years back.

Your best bet is going to be the Cramond/Dalmeny areas were large numbers of LBB Gulls occur both in winter and spring passage.
I have seen a couple in this area in the last few years or so, although both were never submitted.

However I know that this is the wrong side of town for you so keep it up at Musselburgh mate cos you never know.
Dont forget the Seafield area also as good numbers of large Gulls appear on the sea and in the sewage complex itself here, Lothian's only accepted michahellis comes from here.

Also I am sure you are looking out for this

 

[WelchS]

Today had a look at the River Esk mouth, quite good conditions for looking at gulls. The first thing I noticed was the (presumably same) pale-mantled Common Gull. When I first saw it, with the naked eye, I thought it was an adult Med, it was so pale. Through bins the black wing tips really contrast with the virtually white upperparts!
Got a single Med, adult but no legs visible - looked like the rather dark headed bird seen here this winter. Only 1 Med picked out in maybe 3000 gulls though. Didn't see any LBB Gulls here today, usually a few over-winter here these days. Must admit my gull watching is really in an effort to turn something like a Franklin's up! Don't pay too much attention to the Herring/LBB complex, well done to those who try though!. I am looking for Yellow-legged though, for my Scottish list. When I spent a year and a half on the south coast of England they (adults) could be easily picked out from 'normal' Herrings by their pure white head in winter (and sloping forehead).

Glad you found old "pale back"; probably many of these gulls we watch persist for many years, but very few are individually identifiable. Perhaps this means we don't have any regularly returning rare gulls in our roosts?!

I had a quick look at the Seton roost, I would not say conditions were good as it was pretty dull towards dusk but at least with the tide out they weren't disturbed. Nothing unusual amongst c. 4.5k birds which roosted, though there was an ad LBB in the pre-roost, very dark back probably intermedius but did not hang around to allow further scrutiny.

Earlier had just 8 Waxies again from the house; they made a half-hearted attempt at eating a few rowan berries and just when I'd got set-up to photograph them they cleared off again, same as last time! Probably there is an abundance of food in the neighborhood so they just rove around from place to place.

I'm wondering where ours are roosting and I suspect Gosford woods. Anyone know if a roost has ever been located for the Edinburgh hordes? Many years ago (1992) the Aberdeen birds were traced to a roost on the Hill of Fare, 20km distant.

 

[G Anderson]

Hi Gordon,

Glad you saw the pale Common Gull it's a real star don't you think?
Seeing it at dusk in flight in amonst other Gulls, it's like a ghost!

Glad to see also you are in pursuit of Yellow leggers. I have looked in vain at Musselburgh and Seton Burn for years now, however I know that Mike who posts on here had one at Seton a couple of years back.

Your best bet is going to be the Cramond/Dalmeny areas were large numbers of LBB Gulls occur both in winter and spring passage.
I have seen a couple in this area in the last few years or so, although both were never submitted.

However I know that this is the wrong side of town for you so keep it up at Musselburgh mate cos you never know.
Dont forget the Seafield area also as good numbers of large Gulls appear on the sea and in the sewage complex itself here, Lothian's only accepted michahellis comes from here.

Also I am sure you are looking out for this

Yes, that is a distinctive looking gull, don't know if all Caspians are as clear-cut as this though! I suppose these days you need good photos (like this) of tricky gulls.
A good day too for a certain team, no? Flats nah, never!

 

[AC Lig]

Thanks for posting the shot BS - I presume that's the second for Scotland? Nice bird.

Out for a couple of hours yesterday afternoon and this morning. Nothing of much interest at Gladhouse, Aberlady, Port Seton harbour and Musselburgh. Spent a freezing hour at lunch-time studying mantle colour and wing-tip patterns of Herring Gulls at the latter but obviously missed the pale CG and the Med!

 

[markgrubb]

Hi Folks,
It's the all-new me, don't know who that 'area man' was! He's gone now anyway!
Haven't had much this week, a small flock of Waxies at Longniddry on Friday.(Any luck yet Stuarty?)

Jeezy, peeps. Bring back areaman-don't like this serious newcomer

Stuarty-my brother saw 200+ waxwings for the second day running today behind the Shell garage in Dalry Road-it is in the dark side of town near Tynecastle-and that's nowhere near Easter Road where I spent today seeing Edinburgh's solvent side humiliating the lesser greens 2-0|=)|

 

[Mike swims like a fish]

Hi All

The YL Gull I had at Seton Burn was probably about 5 years ago now (belive it or not Cal)......I never submitted it because at the time as a visiting Notts birder I didn't realise the significance and didn't take any notes.....oops.

Managed a few hours out this morning - BN Grebe off Ferny Ness first thing, nothing much doing at Aberlady or Gullane, but did manage crap views of Tony's Tystie off the east side of Fidra (also two Raven on the beach at Yellowcraigs).

Mike

P.S. I wonder whether I should try to drop my psuedonym and put my name on here, or go by Cal's favourite acronym MSLAF.....if any of you can work that one out you are doing well, and showing your age ;-)