Lesser sand plover? Pulicat lake, TN, india. (1 Viewer)

[Jaysan]

Hello, I saw these plovers at Pulicat Lake, Tamil Nadu, India. I'm not sure of the ID, though i feel they might be lesser sand plovers. They were far away and I attach a couple of digiscoped images.

Also, it appears that the nomenclature has changed to Tibetian/Siberian/Mongolian sand plovers... Not sure what the differences between the three are.

Thanks in advance.

Jaysan

 

[01101001]

I don't know, but have a look here:

Greater Sandplover or "lesser", Sharm, Egypt, 14-12-23

Please may I request help. Before 14th December I had never seen any Sandplover ever. I had to chance to see some though: I was aware the id can be challenging. I believe Greater is common here, but there might also be lesser present. (Tibetan s-p) Please may I request help with a bird...

www.birdforum.net

Vagrancy of Siberian vs Tibetan Sand Plovers - anyone knows which?

When checking our opus pages for this split, there are some places where an observation has been made of the pre-split Lesser Sand Plover. Can anyone help with figuring out which form was seen? First location is in Turkey: https://www.birdforum.net/opus/Goksu_Delta Next one in Poland...

www.birdforum.net

Vagrancy of Siberian vs Tibetan Sand Plovers - anyone knows which?

When checking our opus pages for this split, there are some places where an observation has been made of the pre-split Lesser Sand Plover. Can anyone help with figuring out which form was seen? First location is in Turkey: https://www.birdforum.net/opus/Goksu_Delta Next one in Poland...

www.birdforum.net

Vagrancy of Siberian vs Tibetan Sand Plovers - anyone knows which?

When checking our opus pages for this split, there are some places where an observation has been made of the pre-split Lesser Sand Plover. Can anyone help with figuring out which form was seen? First location is in Turkey: https://www.birdforum.net/opus/Goksu_Delta Next one in Poland...

www.birdforum.net

Siberian Sand Plover - BirdForum Opus

www.birdforum.net

Greater Sand Plover - BirdForum Opus

www.birdforum.net

You can read about the split at 2023 Taxonomy Update—COMPLETE - eBird.

The second, third & fourth bird from the left look like Tibetan Sand Plovers, while the first one from the left (out of four) might be a Greater Sand Plover?? I'd be glad if I get at least one of them right.

 

[Earnest lad]

I am not at all experienced in Sandplovers, but it appears from the location of the sighting your birds are likely to be Tibetan Sandplover ssp (pamirensis) or Tibetan Sandplover ssp (atrifons). I hope I am right and that this is helpful.
pamirensis "winters E. Africa to West India"
atrifons "winters India to Sumatra."
It states:
Siberian Sandplover ssp mongolus "winters Taiwan to Australia."
Siberian Sandplover ssp stegmanni "winters South Ryuku to Australia."

 

[Andy Adcock]

At least one of them has a complete collar making it a Kentish.

 

[njlarsen]

I am not at all experienced in Sandplovers, but it appears from the location of the sighting your birds are likely to be Tibetan Sandplover ssp (pamirensis) or Tibetan Sandplover ssp (atrifons). I hope I am right and that this is helpful.
pamirensis "winters E. Africa to West India"
atrifons "winters India to Sumatra."
It states:
Siberian Sandplover ssp mongolus "winters Taiwan to Australia."
Siberian Sandplover ssp stegmanni "winters South Ryuku to Australia."

It is correct that among the two "lesser" sand plovers, Tibetan is the one expected in India. Look at "similar species" in this opus page for a summary on how to id those two from each other.

Tibetan Sand Plover - BirdForum Opus

www.birdforum.net

All of this without making any statements of the id of the birds seen in the photo.
Niels

 

[01101001]

Maybe these pictures are too small to offer a conclusive ID?
(bump)

EDIT: If so, please don't be influenced by what I tried to guess in my first post.

 

[johnallcock]

Maybe these pictures are too small to offer a conclusive ID?
(bump)

EDIT: If so, please don't be influenced by what I tried to guess in my first post.

I've actually been holding off with committing on this post because the images are small for ID. As Andy has already mentioned, the bird on the right has a complete white collar and is a Kentish Plover.

The others look like they're probably Tibetan (white supercilium, rounded head, smallish bill) but some features are hard to judge for the two birds in the centre, facing towards the camera and some aspects make me think a bit of Greater (breast pattern, size against Kentish, head pattern when the bird turns it head). I think these birds (apart from the Kentish) are better considered Sand Plover sp. from these photos.

 

[njlarsen]

I've actually been holding off with committing on this post because the images are small for ID. As Andy has already mentioned, the bird on the right has a complete white collar and is a Kentish Plover.

The others look like they're probably Tibetan (white supercilium, rounded head, smallish bill) but some features are hard to judge for the two birds in the centre, facing towards the camera and some aspects make me think a bit of Greater (breast pattern, size against Kentish, head pattern when the bird turns it head). I think these birds (apart from the Kentish) are better considered Sand Plover sp. from these photos.

I have not looked too deeply into Greater SP, but the nearer of the two middle birds have some looks similar to Tibetan. Remember that the breast back is widely broken in Tibetan, and only slightly broken in Siberian. That might be a pattern that is similar to Greater?
Niels

 

[johnallcock]

I have not looked too deeply into Greater SP, but the nearer of the two middle birds have some looks similar to Tibetan. Remember that the breast back is widely broken in Tibetan, and only slightly broken in Siberian. That might be a pattern that is similar to Greater?
Niels

The breast band in Greater is usually broken, but not as widely as in Tibetan. In my experience if is often narrower at the sides of the breast and gets broader towards the centre of the breast, often ending abruptly with a 'square' shape. On Tibetan it is usually more uniform in width and has a rounded end. For me, the breast pattern of these two centre birds look slightly more like Greater in terms of shape, but the wide separation is perhaps more in line with Tibetan. But this breast pattern is very variable, so better used in combination with other features.

 

[Andy Adcock]

I've actually been holding off with committing on this post because the images are small for ID. As Andy has already mentioned, the bird on the right has a complete white collar and is a Kentish Plover.

The others look like they're probably Tibetan (white supercilium, rounded head, smallish bill) but some features are hard to judge for the two birds in the centre, facing towards the camera and some aspects make me think a bit of Greater (breast pattern, size against Kentish, head pattern when the bird turns it head). I think these birds (apart from the Kentish) are better considered Sand Plover sp. from these photos.

I think the bird at the back is as well?

 

[Jaysan]

I don't know, but have a look here:

Greater Sandplover or "lesser", Sharm, Egypt, 14-12-23

Please may I request help. Before 14th December I had never seen any Sandplover ever. I had to chance to see some though: I was aware the id can be challenging. I believe Greater is common here, but there might also be lesser present. (Tibetan s-p) Please may I request help with a bird...

www.birdforum.net

Vagrancy of Siberian vs Tibetan Sand Plovers - anyone knows which?

When checking our opus pages for this split, there are some places where an observation has been made of the pre-split Lesser Sand Plover. Can anyone help with figuring out which form was seen? First location is in Turkey: https://www.birdforum.net/opus/Goksu_Delta Next one in Poland...

www.birdforum.net

Vagrancy of Siberian vs Tibetan Sand Plovers - anyone knows which?

When checking our opus pages for this split, there are some places where an observation has been made of the pre-split Lesser Sand Plover. Can anyone help with figuring out which form was seen? First location is in Turkey: https://www.birdforum.net/opus/Goksu_Delta Next one in Poland...

www.birdforum.net

Vagrancy of Siberian vs Tibetan Sand Plovers - anyone knows which?

When checking our opus pages for this split, there are some places where an observation has been made of the pre-split Lesser Sand Plover. Can anyone help with figuring out which form was seen? First location is in Turkey: https://www.birdforum.net/opus/Goksu_Delta Next one in Poland...

www.birdforum.net

Siberian Sand Plover - BirdForum Opus

www.birdforum.net

Greater Sand Plover - BirdForum Opus

www.birdforum.net

You can read about the split at 2023 Taxonomy Update—COMPLETE - eBird.

The second, third & fourth bird from the left look like Tibetan Sand Plovers, while the first one from the left (out of four) might be a Greater Sand Plover?? I'd be glad if I get at least one of them right.

Thank you. Has been hectic and could bot visit BF all these days. Will check out the links

 

[Jaysan]

I am not at all experienced in Sandplovers, but it appears from the location of the sighting your birds are likely to be Tibetan Sandplover ssp (pamirensis) or Tibetan Sandplover ssp (atrifons). I hope I am right and that this is helpful.
pamirensis "winters E. Africa to West India"
atrifons "winters India to Sumatra."
It states:
Siberian Sandplover ssp mongolus "winters Taiwan to Australia."
Siberian Sandplover ssp stegmanni "winters South Ryuku to Australia."

Thank you. Sorry about the silence since posting the query. Plenty to check out

 

[Jaysan]

I think the bird at the back is as well?

Thank you Andy. Great to get so much input. Have a lot to refer to

 

[Jaysan]

I have not looked too deeply into Greater SP, but the nearer of the two middle birds have some looks similar to Tibetan. Remember that the breast back is widely broken in Tibetan, and only slightly broken in Siberian. That might be a pattern that is similar to Greater?
Niels

Thank you Neil's. Will check it out

 

[Jaysan]

The breast band in Greater is usually broken, but not as widely as in Tibetan. In my experience if is often narrower at the sides of the breast and gets broader towards the centre of the breast, often ending abruptly with a 'square' shape. On Tibetan it is usually more uniform in width and has a rounded end. For me, the breast pattern of these two centre birds look slightly more like Greater in terms of shape, but the wide separation is perhaps more in line with Tibetan. But this breast pattern is very variable, so better used in combination with other features.

Thank you John. Lots to read up on

 

[Jaysan]

I am not at all experienced in Sandplovers, but it appears from the location of the sighting your birds are likely to be Tibetan Sandplover ssp (pamirensis) or Tibetan Sandplover ssp (atrifons). I hope I am right and that this is helpful.
pamirensis "winters E. Africa to West India"
atrifons "winters India to Sumatra."
It states:
Siberian Sandplover ssp mongolus "winters Taiwan to Australia."
Siberian Sandplover ssp stegmanni "winters South Ryuku to Australia."

Thank you Andy. I misses it in the picture, though I thought of Kentish when I first saw the plovers.

 

[Jaysan]

I am not at all experienced in Sandplovers, but it appears from the location of the sighting your birds are likely to be Tibetan Sandplover ssp (pamirensis) or Tibetan Sandplover ssp (atrifons). I hope I am right and that this is helpful.
pamirensis "winters E. Africa to West India"
atrifons "winters India to Sumatra."
It states:
Siberian Sandplover ssp mongolus "winters Taiwan to Australia."
Siberian Sandplover ssp stegmanni "winters South Ryuku to Australia."

Thank you. Will check it out

 

[Earnest lad]

Thank you. Sorry about the silence since posting the query. Plenty to check out

Thank you for your gracious reply LOL

 

[johnallcock]

I think the bird at the back is as well?

Maybe, but given that you can't see the nape it's hard to be sure from these small images: note that the bird next to it looks like it could have a complete collar on the first photo, but clearly doesn't when it turns its head. Other aspects of this bird (size, leg length, head/breast pattern) look like a sand plover to me. Maybe best left unidentified.