Leitz Vs. Leica Design (2 Viewers)

[Dialyt]

Is it just me or does anyone else feel that the new binoculars just don't have that wow factor in terms of aesthetics?

I've just been looking, no drooling, over a pair of Leitz binoculars on ebay (search LEITZ (LEICA) 10x40 BA TRINOVID BINOCULARS - GREEN). I'd like to buy them, but alas, I have no funds for that. Somebody else buy them for me and I'll buy them off you in five years for 150% of the price you paid! (Joke!)

But anyway, does anyone else agree with me? Sure the Ultravids are good to look through, but design-wise, I think they are somewhat lacking, when you compare them to the classic design of the older binoculars.

What's the point of this thread? For anyone who loves the old design of Leica (Leitz) and Zeiss to discuss this issue.

(Having said that, the 32mm Ultravids do have a retro look about them...)

 

[ronh]

The Leitz Trinovid, far ahead of its time, had an elegant appearance unrivaled by any other binocular, in my opinion. I love the old ads showing them with a pack of cigarettes, or sailboats in the background. Sophistication in optics.

With the Leica Trinovid, a very different fashion statement was made. With its bulky ribbed black polyurethane armor, it is the most rugged looking and machismo binocular ever made.

I am neither sophisticated nor rugged looking myself but can appreciate a binocular that really has character. Although undoubtedly superior, the Ultravid has a kind of plain vanilla look.
Ron

 

[flatfield]

I agree with you.

The explanation is probably that the second Trinovid generation introduced a waterproof and gas filled construction which is difficult to combine with the elegance of the first Trinovid generation you are referring to.

Thinking more about it, maybe this argument is wrong. Swarovski builds a waterproof and gas filled 8x30W Habicht which looks as beautiful as a Leitz Binuxit from 1927.

Joachim

 

[ceasar]

The Leitz Trinovids had a very graceful design. Arguably they were the handsomest roof prisms ever made. The Leitz used an Uppendahl roof prism design which, no doubt, contributed to it's looks, but it did not have phase coating. I believe that the newer Leica Trinovids and Ultravids use the much more common Schmidt/Pechan roof prism. These models have phase coating.

I own both a Leitz 7 x 42 Trinovid BA (Green) and the newer Leica 7 x 42 Trinovid BN. Although the Leitz is still an excellent binocular with excellent sharpness and a very expansive "sweet spot.," it is not as sharp or bright as the newer Leica model. They both have a 420' FOV.

Leica may not have any parts left to repair the older Leitz models, so keep that in mind if you decide to get one. I was able to get new rubber eyecups several years ago from Leica for my Leitz. They are screw on types and cost 25 bucks a piece.

I still take the old Leitz's out and use them on occasion. They have a yellow color cast to their view and are very good in misty, rainy conditions.

Cordially,
Bob

 

[Pinewood]

I agree with you.


Thinking more about it, maybe this argument is wrong. Swarovski builds a waterproof and gas filled 8x30W Habicht which looks as beautiful as a Leitz Binuxit from 1927.

Joachim

Joachim,

I never thought of my Binuxit as beautiful, but I certainly hold mine in high regard.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur

 

[flatfield]

but I certainly hold mine in high regard.

You should. 150m field of view and a weight of 520g are still very attractive. Unfortunately, I don't have one but I have a Leitz catalogue from 1953 which shows the porro models of that time. They do look great in my opinion (better than the Ultravids to return to the original subject).
Joachim

 

[John M Robinson]

I prefer the look of the Ultravids to the Trinovid BA and BN, but neither compare to the old Leitz Trinovid. I had a 7x35 Leitz Trinovid, I think they were a high point of industrial design and should be in some museum of modern art. It has been discussed here before, but I wish Leica could re-introduce the old Uppendahl design with modern coatings and make it waterproof. I remember my 7x35s being quite light as well as elegant to hold.

The Ultravid design does a good job of combining function, handling and size in an attractive package. Something about Leicas just makes you have no doubt that they are built like a German tank. I don't get that same sense when handling a Swaro EL for instance. And the Zeiss Classics may have a wonderful view but they look like they were designed by some plumber for use on the Yellow Submarine.

 

[Dialyt]

I prefer the look of the Ultravids to the Trinovid BA and BN, but neither compare to the old Leitz Trinovid. I had a 7x35 Leitz Trinovid, I think they were a high point of industrial design and should be in some museum of modern art. It has been discussed here before, but I wish Leica could re-introduce the old Uppendahl design with modern coatings and make it waterproof. I remember my 7x35s being quite light as well as elegant to hold.

The Ultravid design does a good job of combining function, handling and size in an attractive package. Something about Leicas just makes you have no doubt that they are built like a German tank. I don't get that same sense when handling a Swaro EL for instance. And the Zeiss Classics may have a wonderful view but they look like they were designed by some plumber for use on the Yellow Submarine.

That would be excellent. But it seems unlikely that Leica would bring back an old design. Unless it was a collector's piece, in which case they would probably charge the earth for it.

Re: Zeiss, they do have that wartime look, but I like them a lot, I think the 7x42 is one of the most beautiful binoculars ever made. The only bino to rival it aesthetically is the Leitz Trinovid.

Has anyone compared the old Leitz Trinovid against the new Leica Trinovids, and the Ultravids? I'd love to hear how they perform.

 

[ceasar]

That would be excellent. But it seems unlikely that Leica would bring back an old design. Unless it was a collector's piece, in which case they would probably charge the earth for it.

Re: Zeiss, they do have that wartime look, but I like them a lot, I think the 7x42 is one of the most beautiful binoculars ever made. The only bino to rival it aesthetically is the Leitz Trinovid.

Has anyone compared the old Leitz Trinovid against the new Leica Trinovids, and the Ultravids? I'd love to hear how they perform.

Here is a recent link discussing these binoculars. It is very good and explains, among other things, why the older prism design was dropped. See threads #4 and #7. As I noted above, My Leica 7 x 42 Trinovids are better than my Leitz 7 x 42 Trinovids.
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=107671
Bob.

 

[Kevin Conville]

Dialyt, et al-

Have you seen Ultravid BLs? My God they're beautiful!
To me they have all the aesthetic appeal of the old Leitz Trinovids (and then some) combined with all the modern bells and whistles. Talk about a classic.

If only they made them in 7x42... -or- better yet a 7x35!

 

[Dialyt]

See the attached. I think the green Leitz is the most beautiful binocular ever made. Compare it to the dull Ultra. Dull dull dull.

Re: the Leica Ultra BL - yes they are nice. But not as much so as the Leitz.

I should add that the Leica Ultravid 32BR Vs. 42BR are different; this may seem obvious, but the proportions of the bino vary such that the 32mm models, imho, are more aesthetically pleasing than the 42BR models.

I have the 8x32BR Ultra, I think they are pretty nice design wise, but have nothing on the old Leitz.

I have this MAD notion of buying those Leitz on ebay using my credit card, but with little prospect of paying it off anytime soon. I won't act on this daft notion.

You may not be able to see both images - I don't know what is wrong.

 

[ceasar]

They look just like mine, except mine have longer eye cups.

Trust me! The newer models are much better optically.

Cordially,
Bob

PS: I'm going to take them out on the deck later and use them! It's a nice overcast afternoon!

 

[Kevin Conville]

Dialyt,
I thought you were referring to the leather clad versions, not the rubber armored.

I had a pair of 10x25 Leitz for 20 years that were a miniature version (green armored) of what you posted. They were the best in their day but as Ceasar says, they really don't compare to modern Leicas optically. Mine didn't have phase coating on the prisms and the lens coatings weren't in the same league as today. They also weren't fully waterproof. The minis (only) also had an inferior strap lug that was prone to break.

Back to your point, their beauty... Yes they are indeed beautiful. I'm guessing the reality won't match the fantasy though, once you use them.

If Leica would make a 7x35 mimicking the old Leitz in green armor but with twist up eyecups and modern guts, I'm sure it would be a huge success. And I would want one!

 

[Dialyt]

Dialyt,
I thought you were referring to the leather clad versions, not the rubber armored.

I had a pair of 10x25 Leitz for 20 years that were a miniature version (green armored) of what you posted. They were the best in their day but as Ceasar says, they really don't compare to modern Leicas optically. Mine didn't have phase coated on the prisms and the lens coatings weren't in the same league as today. They also weren't fully waterproof. The minis (only) also had an inferior strap lug that was prone to break.

Back to your point, their beauty... Yes they are indeed beautiful. I'm guessing the reality won't match the fantasy though, once you use them.

Yes I think you are right. They look good, but to look through they are not so good as today's Leica bins.

As an aside, I'm not really into leather bins due to durability concerns. Believe me, what I put my bins through, at least in the past, no leather bin could have endured and come out looking good.

 

[Robert / Seattle]

Dialyt, et al-

Have you seen Ultravid BLs? My God they're beautiful!
To me they have all the aesthetic appeal of the old Leitz Trinovids (and then some) combined with all the modern bells and whistles. Talk about a classic.

Have got to agree. And though I fully agree with the original poster and several commentators hence, the Black Leather version of the contemporary Ultravid is, indeed, a stunner. It is the best of both worlds. And for those of you who are curious I'd start looking at aquiring a pair soon as I understand the availability is limited to stock on hand.

 

[Kevin Conville]

The last of the BLs are certainly mouthwatering but I'm too flush with bins right now including two pair of Leicas. If I were to also get a pair BLs, I'd be in danger of becoming a binocular collector and not just a user.
I bought my 7x42 BRs not long ago and if the BLs had been made in 7x, I'd be there now.

Still, I would certainly fall prey to 7x35 HDs in Black Leather, if ever they were to be made, pretty much regardless of price. They would just be too irresistible.

 

[Dialyt]

I guess the ultimate question is this: Will we, or our children, be reminiscing about the Leica Ultravid HD as being that classic of binocular design, in 2050? (Forget the Ultravid FL - I'm not considering them as they are 'classic' now.)

 

[Robert / Seattle]

I guess the ultimate question is this: Will we, or our children, be reminiscing about the Leica Ultravid HD as being that classic of binocular design, in 2050? (Forget the Ultravid FL - I'm not considering them as they are 'classic' now.)

My guess is yes, for I fear nothing will be manufactured that well with respect to craftsmanship by mid-21st century. Just look at the trend.

 

[Dialyt]

My guess is yes, for I fear nothing will be manufactured that well with respect to craftsmanship by mid-21st century. Just look at the trend.

You think Leica will go to pot? Surely they will continue to make the best binoculars?

On a separate note, anyone got any ideas about how the Leitz 10x40BA Trinovid would compare with the Zeiss Dialyt 10x40B/GAT*P*?

I am at some risk of doing something very foolish with my credit card. Trust me. I have no job, I couldn't pay this off this side of Christmas 2008.

It's just been a dream of mine for some time to have a classic Leitz bino. Having said that, we all know it won't make me happy! Still I yearn for that bino...

 

[henry link]

Put away that credit card! They may be beautiful to look at, but the Leitz Trinovids were neither phase coated nor multi-coated. Optically they were simply not very good binoculars, even in their day. Old ones can also suffer from tarnished silver coatings on the prisms, which was $800 repair 10 years ago and may not even be possible to repair now.