Latest IOC Diary Updates (6 Viewers)

[awiner]

Help if I saw a Brush Cuckoo in Lankawi Malaysia which split would it be?
Thanks

I think it's gotta be Sunda Brush Cuckoo, subsp. sepulcralis (range Malay Pen., Greater and Lesser Sundas e to Alor)

 

[Paul Clapham]

Thanks for the info. That's sad, so we'll just have to suck it up and accept all these 'secret' decisions! 🙃

It's the same for Clements and the eBird checklist, though. They spend a year reviewing things and making decisions, then they publish the resulting spreadsheet etc. following their yearly schedule. It's the same with BirdLife International, as far as I know. And as far as I know it's only IOC that "think out loud" by publishing their decisions as they make them.

 

[Steve.Jonesy]

I think it's gotta be Sunda Brush Cuckoo, subsp. sepulcralis (range Malay Pen., Greater and Lesser Sundas e to Alor)

Many thanks 😅

 

[Diedert]

It's the same for Clements and the eBird checklist, though. They spend a year reviewing things and making decisions, then they publish the resulting spreadsheet etc. following their yearly schedule. It's the same with BirdLife International, as far as I know. And as far as I know it's only IOC that "think out loud" by publishing their decisions as they make them.

So, IOC is the least worst of them all!

 

[l_raty]

So, IOC is the least worst of them all!

was.
And, yes, I agree, "That's sad".

 

[Mysticete]

They have stated that the proposals for WGAC will be made public once the website and checklist is published. I don't think you can fault them not being available when the checklist itself isn't. I don't think they are being secretive, but before you release a few hundred proposals, I am guessing they might need...I don't know...a website set up to actually host them

 

[Jacana]

Aug 30 Transition to IOC 14.2 complete.

 

[bonxie birder]

I gained one and lost four. Worst ever update.

 

[nkbj]

I can see no reason why we should have lost the link. We'll check.

There are a couple of bugs in the links page:

• https://www.worldbirdnames.org/IOC_Names_File_Plus-13.2_full-ssp.xlsxComparison of IOC 14.2 with other world lists (XLSX, 6.0 Mb)

The link is correct, but the text is two filenames combined.

• Life List+full ssp (v14.1, Excel File XLSX, 3.0Mb)

The link is not active.

Regards,
Niels Kristian

 

[Jacana]

I gained one and lost four. Worst ever update.

It was always going to be a tough one unless you'd been island hopping along the western Pacific Rim 😅

 

[awiner]

I gained one and lost four. Worst ever update.

+14, -4 for me, net +10. Really "helps" that I've spent fairly little time in Africa.

 

[Diedert]

They have stated that the proposals for WGAC will be made public once the website and checklist is published. I don't think you can fault them not being available when the checklist itself isn't. I don't think they are being secretive, but before you release a few hundred proposals, I am guessing they might need...I don't know...a website set up to actually host them

Well, one 'solution' to avoid such a situation would be to just wait until it is all published and accessible right? There is of course no 'need' to publish these changes now. (Nor is there of course a need to wait, as I understand all too well, as it is all just 'volunteering'.)
I'm mostly just jesting but I am honestly curious about the decision-making and all behind the scenes. Especially since we are having debates (and they've been going on for a long while) about which taxonomic decision-making body we adhere to in The Netherlands and also base our journal on. It is always nice to have some sort of sense and understanding of said decision-making process, and being able to follow along with reasons given for splits & lumps.

 

[Markus Lagerqvist]

I gained one and lost four. Worst ever update.

Gained 29, lost 6, so a pretty good update!

Frustrating not gaining a single tick from the Common Cicadabird split though.
Have only seen one ssp in the complex, despite having birded in the range of seven different taxa(!)

 

[James Lowther]

-3,+2 for overall -1.

I have a middle of the road list of just short of 3000.

I think this set of updates really favours those with already gigantic lists!!



James

 

[DDonsker]

There are a couple of bugs in the links page:

• https://www.worldbirdnames.org/IOC_Names_File_Plus-13.2_full-ssp.xlsxComparison of IOC 14.2 with other world lists (XLSX, 6.0 Mb)

The link is correct, but the text is two filenames combined.

• Life List+full ssp (v14.1, Excel File XLSX, 3.0Mb)

The link is not active.

Regards,
Niels Kristian

Now fixed. Thanks.

 

[Mysticete]

Well, one 'solution' to avoid such a situation would be to just wait until it is all published and accessible right? There is of course no 'need' to publish these changes now. (Nor is there of course a need to wait, as I understand all too well, as it is all just 'volunteering'.)
I'm mostly just jesting but I am honestly curious about the decision-making and all behind the scenes. Especially since we are having debates (and they've been going on for a long while) about which taxonomic decision-making body we adhere to in The Netherlands and also base our journal on. It is always nice to have some sort of sense and understanding of said decision-making process, and being able to follow along with reasons given for splits & lumps.

My guess is if IOC/Clements stopped publishing updates for several years (I believe the WGAC got started on there work around 2020) it would probably cause people to become more upset than waiting and putting out everything at once. Not to mention it might be a tad overwhelming for folks with longer lists. A lot of the reasoning for New World changes can be read in the SACC and NACC proposals, and most of the old world changes have some basis in the literature and field guides. Its probably more confusing sometime to figure out WHY something wasn't changed than why it was!

 

[YuShan]

Gained 6, lost 3. Net gain = 3

 

[jts1882]

My guess is if IOC/Clements stopped publishing updates for several years (I believe the WGAC got started on there work around 2020) it would probably cause people to become more upset than waiting and putting out everything at once. Not to mention it might be a tad overwhelming for folks with longer lists. A lot of the reasoning for New World changes can be read in the SACC and NACC proposals, and most of the old world changes have some basis in the literature and field guides. Its probably more confusing sometime to figure out WHY something wasn't changed than why it was!

It's certainly more interesting to get the changes slowly, allowing for discussion. Imagine a several year hiatus and the sudden announcement of hundreds of changes.

 

[l_raty]

It's certainly more interesting to get the changes slowly, allowing for discussion. Imagine a several year hiatus and the sudden announcement of hundreds of changes.

I guess it all depends what matters to you.

I don't really care about 'gains' and 'losses' on personal lists. I'm most interested in discussions but, IMO, no meaningful discussion can be 'allowed' by implementing a change without providing a proper justification.
"It would certainly be more interesting to get the justifications of the changes slowly, allowing for discussion. Imagine a several year hiatus with hundreds of changes implemented but left unjustified, and the sudden release of hundreds of justifications..."
(Oh, wait...)

If the checklists implement the changes, and if there is a justification behind them, why can't they release the justification simultaneously with the implementation ?

 

[bonxie birder]

I guess it all depends what matters to you.

I don't really care about 'gains' and 'losses' on personal lists. I'm most interested in discussions but, IMO, no meaningful discussion can be 'allowed' by implementing a change without providing a proper justification.
"It would certainly be more interesting to get the justifications of the changes slowly, allowing for discussion. Imagine a several year hiatus with hundreds of changes implemented but left unjustified, and the sudden release of hundreds of justifications..."
(Oh, wait...)

If the checklists implement the changes, and if there is a justification behind them, why can't they release the justification simultaneously with the implementation ?

The older I’ve got the more I love my lists. Too much time on my hands. I love Update Day!