Kite Ibis ED/DDOptics EDX vs DDOptics SHG in 7/8x42 (1 Viewer)

[Swig Waltersson]

Hello community.

This is my first post here. Thanks to all those whose more copious contributions make it so informative. I've been reading the forum intensely in recent weeks while looking for a new all-round birding bino. I'd like something below 1,000 euros, below 800g and with a decent FOV to replace my beloved Opticron SR.GA 8x32s, which don't provide enough eye relief now that I need eyeglasses.

I thought an 8x30/32 would do it, but didn't find the answer in roofs or porros for various reasons (eye relief, glare, eye placement), so have accepted that I need an 8x42 in order to forget about the glass and concentrate on the bird.

I'm tempted to try the new Conquest HDX, but would prefer to spend quite a bit less. From the specs, the Opticron Aurora looks ideal, but I can't get it in Germany, so I tried Pentax ZD ED 8x43 (very nice optically and mechanically, but too narrow), Vixen Artes J 8x42 (I was hoping for an Opticron DBA VHD+ clone, and maybe I got it, but I found the view dim and the focus wheel 'dry'), Nikon Monarch 7 (great ergonomics and FOV, but the view seems too washed out compared to the Pentax).

[In a moment of frustration, I also ordered an Oberwerk SE 8x32, which I am still trying to come to terms with. A wonderful view, but I wonder if I can turn that focus wheel when the grease is cold and I'm in gloves. I might keep it anyway because I like porros.]

Through reviews on this forum and elsewhere, I got interested in what look like very similar Kamakura-made roofs sold by DDOptics and Kite Optics. Right now, I am tempted by three offers I have found on various websites. I think all three binos will provide enough eye relief, and would like to hear from anyone who has used these models in the field and has an opinon about which looks the best deal:

1. DDOptics SHG 8x42. 882 euros new. It's their top of the range, same shape as Aurora, but advertising material doesn't mention ED glass. I worry that the 8.1 FOV will mean veiling glare.
2. DDOptics EDX 7x42. 649 euros for a hunting store's demo unit with a couple of visible scratches on ocular/bridge. ED glass. Clone of Kite Ibis ED. One retailer says it has a poly body, which surprised me as it's not clear from either the DDOptics or Kite websites.
3. Kite Ibis ED 8x42. 699 euros for a retailer's display unit.

Grateful for any guidance that anyone might have.

 

[Canip]

These are all good binoculars in my experience - I know EDX, Ibis and SHG each in at least one configuration - and I would rate the SHG the highest.

DDoptics SHG 8×42 – Binoculars Today

 

[Swig Waltersson]

Thanks Canip. Should I expect the SHG to have inferior glare management, given its wide field? And does the (apparent) lack of ED glass play any role there, or is it only relevant for CA?

 

[jan van daalen]

Thanks Canip. Should I expect the SHG to have inferior glare management, given its wide field? And does the (apparent) lack of ED glass play any role there, or is it only relevant for CA?

Swig,

ED or non ED is just marketing at that price level.

 

[Swig Waltersson]

Fair enough Jan. I ordered an SHG and a new Conquest so I can select the best and return one. I am hoping at least one is as sharp as the Oberwerk (and its supposedly ED glass).

I was so comfortable with my sr.ga's that I didn't pay any attention to how binoculars had improved. I'd never looked through a good roof until I recently tried some Pentax ZDs and Kowa Genesis 8x33s (which had too little eye relief). Now I don't want to accept anything below that level.

 

[etudiant]

Given all the hoopla about the Sky Ranger Banner Cloud offerings, I'm surprised they were not considered.

 

[Swig Waltersson]

Too heavy. And having bought a (pretty heavy) Oberwerk with potentially dodgy build (eyecups and focus) I want to pair or replace it with something I can rely on and that is user-friendly enough to pass to a casual birding companion without them having to wrestle with the controls.

 

[Swig Waltersson]

Too heavy. It would be nice to pair the Oberwerk, which is really a lot of fun once you get used to it, with a quality lighter roof that is also user-friendly enough to pass to non-fanatics tagging along on birding trips without them having to wrestle with the controls.

 

[Conndomat]

Thanks Canip. Should I expect the SHG to have inferior glare management, given its wide field? And does the (apparent) lack of ED glass play any role there, or is it only relevant for CA?

"CA appears well controlled, stray-light performance and color fidelity are very good..."

Andreas

 

[Conndomat]

lack of ED glass play any role there, or is it only relevant for CA?

P.S. Even if it is not explicitly stated, in the price range an ED lens should also be in this model! Zeiss and Swarovski also do not constantly mention the term ED, especially since these abbreviations can be very arbitrary.

"ED" is a pretty elastic term because there are big differences in quality.

Andreas

 

[Swig Waltersson]

FWIW, I'm returning both the Conquest HDX 8x42 and the DDOptics SHG 8x42. The former is gorgeous optically and in the hand, sharp and bright, works well with eyeglasses, comfy view. I really don't like glare and the HDX is very good in that regard. But the focuser is so fast and so 'dry' that it is a pain in the posterior. It's very hard to move it just a little.

The SHG has a smoother focuser, but it was gritty and not very nice to use. The bridge has some uncomfortable sharp edges and the diopter was hard to adjust. I felt I never got it right and wondered if that was why they seemed less sharp than the HDX (or the Oberwerks) and that the wide FOV was being traded against contrast, as in a Monarch M7 I tried and returned recently.

For me, the greased focusers in my old porros set a standard that it is hard to step down from and I haven't come across many of the greaseless type in the sub-1000 euro class where I am searching that don't frustrate (Pentax ZD ED 8x42 and Kowa Genesis 8x33 excepted but they had other issues i.e. narrow view, too short eye relief) and am surprised at the praise given to some of them in the forum.

Maybe I've just been unlucky and should go to the shop, get them to unpack all their Conquests and just take the one with the smoothest focuser. Or maybe I should buy a pair and send them to Zeiss asking them to adjust it slightly. If anyone has done that successfully (maybe with another model, as the HDX is very new), I'd be interested to hear from them.

 

[ArchStanton]

FWIW, I'm returning both the Conquest HDX 8x42 and the DDOptics SHG 8x42. The former is gorgeous optically and in the hand, sharp and bright, works well with eyeglasses, comfy view. I really don't like glare and the HDX is very good in that regard. But the focuser is so fast and so 'dry' that it is a pain in the posterior. It's very hard to move it just a little.

The SHG has a smoother focuser, but it was gritty and not very nice to use. The bridge has some uncomfortable sharp edges and the diopter was hard to adjust. I felt I never got it right and wondered if that was why they seemed less sharp than the HDX (or the Oberwerks) and that the wide FOV was being traded against contrast, as in a Monarch M7 I tried and returned recently.

For me, the greased focusers in my old porros set a standard that it is hard to step down from and I haven't come across many of the greaseless type in the sub-1000 euro class where I am searching that don't frustrate (Pentax ZD ED 8x42 and Kowa Genesis 8x33 excepted but they had other issues i.e. narrow view, too short eye relief) and am surprised at the praise given to some of them in the forum.

Maybe I've just been unlucky and should go to the shop, get them to unpack all their Conquests and just take the one with the smoothest focuser. Or maybe I should buy a pair and send them to Zeiss asking them to adjust it slightly. If anyone has done that successfully (maybe with another model, as the HDX is very new), I'd be interested to hear from them.

FWIW, I'm returning both the Conquest HDX 8x42 and the DDOptics SHG 8x42. The former is gorgeous optically and in the hand, sharp and bright, works well with eyeglasses, comfy view. I really don't like glare and the HDX is very good in that regard. But the focuser is so fast and so 'dry' that it is a pain in the posterior. It's very hard to move it just a little.

The SHG has a smoother focuser, but it was gritty and not very nice to use. The bridge has some uncomfortable sharp edges and the diopter was hard to adjust. I felt I never got it right and wondered if that was why they seemed less sharp than the HDX (or the Oberwerks) and that the wide FOV was being traded against contrast, as in a Monarch M7 I tried and returned recently.

For me, the greased focusers in my old porros set a standard that it is hard to step down from and I haven't come across many of the greaseless type in the sub-1000 euro class where I am searching that don't frustrate (Pentax ZD ED 8x42 and Kowa Genesis 8x33 excepted but they had other issues i.e. narrow view, too short eye relief) and am surprised at the praise given to some of them in the forum.

Maybe I've just been unlucky and should go to the shop, get them to unpack all their Conquests and just take the one with the smoothest focuser. Or maybe I should buy a pair and send them to Zeiss asking them to adjust it slightly. If anyone has done that successfully (maybe with another model, as the HDX is very new), I'd be interested to hear from them.

Have you considered the Opticron Aurora 8x42’s? The majority of the comments that I’ve read regarding the Auroras have been positive with the exception of Denco and Jackjack.

 

[Conndomat]

Or maybe I should buy a pair and send them to Zeiss asking them to adjust it slightly. If anyone has done that successfully (maybe with another model, as the HDX is very new), I'd be interested to hear from them.

Yes Zeiss does that!

I sent in my HD 10x32, but the focuser was too smooth for me, I want it with more rotational resistance, now it's perfect.

However, the fast focusing remains, but it's just a matter of getting used to it.

Andreas

 

[Swig Waltersson]

Thanks for your suggestion Arch.

I am an Opticron fan but can only get a limited range of products in Germany (Brexit makes buying from the UK slow, painful and expensive. A bit like dental treatment) that doesn't include the Savanna 8x42. I'd like to try it, expect the optics are just fine (thanks to smaller FOV) but suspect that I will not like the focuser. The DDOptics SHG is a dead ringer for the Savanna physically and I didn't like the focuser too much. I also returned a Vixen Artes J that, like the Savanna and SHG, is presumably made by Kamakura and also had a similar dry and sticky focus action.

 

[Swig Waltersson]

Yes Zeiss does that!

I sent in my HD 10x32, but the focuser was too smooth for me, I want it with more rotational resistance, now it's perfect.

However, the fast focusing remains, but it's just a matter of getting used to it.

Andreas

Thank you, that's interesting. I've already boxed up the HDXs for return, but I should call Zeiss and see what they can offer before the return period expires.

 

[ArchStanton]

Thanks for your suggestion Arch.

I am an Opticron fan but can only get a limited range of products in Germany (Brexit makes buying from the UK slow, painful and expensive. A bit like dental treatment) that doesn't include the Savanna 8x42. I'd like to try it, expect the optics are just fine (thanks to smaller FOV) but suspect that I will not like the focuser. The DDOptics SHG is a dead ringer for the Savanna physically and I didn't like the focuser too much. I also returned a Vixen Artes J that, like the Savanna and SHG, is presumably made by Kamakura and also had a similar dry and sticky focus action.

That's too bad about the Brexit situation. Opticron doesn't seem have much of a following here in the states. I have a pair of Opticron Oregon 8x42's that am pretty happy with and a pair of Savanna WP 8x30's that are pretty good for an inexpensive pair of porro-prism binoculars. If I find the Aurora's on sale, I'm going to order them and see for myself how good they are. Best of luck in finding a good pair of binoculars that suit you.

 

[Swig Waltersson]

That's too bad about the Brexit situation. Opticron doesn't seem have much of a following here in the states. I have a pair of Opticron Oregon 8x42's that am pretty happy with and a pair of Savanna WP 8x30's that are pretty good for an inexpensive pair of porro-prism binoculars. If I find the Aurora's on sale, I'm going to order them and see for myself how good they are. Best of luck in finding a good pair of binoculars that suit you.

Thanks Arch. Sorry, I'm getting my Opticrons mixed up. It's the Auroras I can't get here. I tried the Savanna porros and they are great value, really sharp and bright in the middle as maybe only porros can be at this price. Compact and light, nice in the hand. I could have lived with the narrowish field and the bit of play and stiffness in the focus action (I wonder if that is almost inevitable in a cheap waterproofed porro), but there was not quite enough eye relief for me. They might be just right for you.

 

[ArchStanton]

Thanks Arch. Sorry, I'm getting my Opticrons mixed up. It's the Auroras I can't get here. I tried the Savanna porros and they are great value, really sharp and bright in the middle as maybe only porros can be at this price. Compact and light, nice in the hand. I could have lived with the narrowish field and the bit of play and stiffness in the focus action (I wonder if that is almost inevitable in a cheap waterproofed porro), but there was not quite enough eye relief for me. They might be just right for you.

I agree that the focus wheel on the Savanna Porro prism binoculars isn’t very good and rarely use them. Have you considered the Kite Bonelli binoculars? If I’m not mistaken, they’re the top binoculars that Kite sells. Other than their image stabilization binoculars, the Kite Linyx is the highest model I’ve come across here in the US.