Kenya rolls out poison in bid to cull a million crows (1 Viewer)

[lockbreeze926]

I lost count of the many and varied issues raised by this particular situation.

Beyond identifying the complexity, I have no fuel left (it's past midnight) to figure out what my own view(s) might (or in other respects, might not) be.

Kenya rolls out poison in bid to cull a million Indian house crows

Invasive birds are a major nuisance on the coast and there are fears they could travel inland.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[jogresh]

Seems like a really bad idea for a lot of reasons. For starters, they clear up a lot of shit, so expect an increase in flies, roaches etc. Also, they're insectivorous, so expect further increases in flies, roaches, locusts, etc.
It's not like nothing was doing what they're now doing (ie, nature abhors a vacuum, no empty niches etc etc), so... 🤔🧐🤷

Very disappointed to see "A Rocha" advocating for this, I've worked with them and had a lot of respect for them.

 

[Warixenjalka]

What about other birds which use same sites on foraging, like Marabous, vultures and native Crows? Won't the poison affect them?

 

[Farnboro John]

What about anything that eats poisoned corpses? I can't see an upside to this anywhere.

John

 

[Brad Hacker]

The linked article provided by the OP addresses some of the questions raised in comments above.

 

[jogresh]

My comments were in response to the linked article. 🙂

 

[SteveClark]

This was successfully conducted in Dar es Salaam in the past but was not maintained and the birds surged back. They have spread through Tanzania and just recently were recorded in Mwanza on Lake Victoria for the first time. Once established there they will have abundant food and will spread to Uganda and central Africa. Everywhere they establish they compete heavily with native birds and largely wipe them out. What else can be done?

 

[jogresh]

Nothing can be done.
They're here now; and poisoning any percentage less than 100%, will have zero effect long term.

 

[TicoTyler]

What about anything that eats poisoned corpses? I can't see an upside to this anywhere.

John

From the article: "The slow-acting poison is entirely metabolised by the crow before it dies – which means, there is little risk of secondary poisoning to any other species that feeds on the dead crow," Ms Ruto added.

 

[Xenospiza]

It took many months for the 40-strong Dutch House Crow colony at Hoek van Holland to be exterminated, so the 10,000s of birds in Kenya and Tanzania will need a concerted, non-stop effort for years.
I only saw House Crow in urban areas in Tanzania, even more strongly linked to habitation than Pied Crow (which is likely the first species to suffer).

 

[Farnboro John]

From the article: "The slow-acting poison is entirely metabolised by the crow before it dies – which means, there is little risk of secondary poisoning to any other species that feeds on the dead crow," Ms Ruto added.

And clap hands if you believe in fairies.

John

 

[Zipper]

First...reminds me a bit of the effort of the Chinese government in 1958 with the Smash Sparrows campaign. That didn't end well.

Second...that this is an introduced species. Well, give it a try? I'm sure it will fail as it seems the smaller and/or more adaptable the species, the lower the success rate. Hopefully other animals and people will not suffer a loss of life, liberty, or pursuit of happiness in Kenya's initiative.

 

[YuShan]

I thought: offer a bounty for every Indian House Crow caught. It's a relatively poor country so many people would take to it to earn some cash. Unfortunately, people are likely to then start breeding them instead, making the problem worse. Plus they might kill everything that looks remotely like a House Crow.

 

[Trinovid]

And clap hands if you believe in fairies.

My what an utterly "I don't know anything to the contrary, so I'll just throw out this cheap attack" comment. If he's wrong then post evidence to the contrary. These types of insults were being used just a couple years ago on those who believed precisely as you, only that time with more evidence than believing in fairies.

 

[Farnboro John]

My what an utterly "I don't know anything to the contrary, so I'll just throw out this cheap attack" comment. If he's wrong then post evidence to the contrary. These types of insults were being used just a couple years ago on those who believed precisely as you, only that time with more evidence than believing in fairies.

The dose absorbed is uncontrollable, the individual's metabolism is uncontrollable and it's absolutely obvious that to absorb a lethal dose, at the point of death there is going to be some left over because not quite enough won't work. Try thinking.

John

 

[Trinovid]

The dose absorbed is uncontrollable, the individual's metabolism is uncontrollable and it's absolutely obvious that to absorb a lethal dose, at the point of death there is going to be some left over because not quite enough won't work. Try thinking.

You try thinking outside of your own prejudiced views for once and compare what you just wrote to an actual scientific approach that leaves room for possibilities you choose to ignore.

The good thing in this post of yours is that it started out as a rational response that could lead to discussion, but by habit you simply had to close with an insult which actually shows more bearing on your blindered approach to anything you've already made your mind up about.

Your view, or TicoTyler could be correct, and I'm willing to listen to both sides of it, if there was any chance to discuss it rationally rather than kicking other members with your keyboard.

 

[Mono]

Starlicide - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It is a very bird selective poison and has been used in eradication of house crows (the academic papers referenced are paywalled). But as with all of these large scale control projects by the time the side effects are clear it is usually too late to do anything about it.

 

[Xenospiza]

It looks like it is not that discriminatory: saying it only kills House Crows is obviously false.
"In Samoa, the use of starlicide for myna control causes native bird mortality and increases the chlorine in water and, though mynas pose some threat for native birds, risk-benefit ratio for this ecosystem is uncertain."

But there is a silver lining with regards to which mammal is not resistant to the poison.

 

[Trinovid]

It looks like it is not that discriminatory: saying it only kills House Crows is obviously false.
"In Samoa, the use of starlicide for myna control causes native bird mortality and increases the chlorine in water and, though mynas pose some threat for native birds, risk-benefit ratio for this ecosystem is uncertain."

"Uncertain" sounds like a good time to look at other options.

 

[Zipper]

I believe I know where John is coming from. There is a growing mistrust in "safety" claims made about chemicals and products. 3M and DuPont lied for decades about its internal findings about its chemical PFAS...and now face clean-up and lawsuits that could land in the $10 billion (US) range. The Devil they Knew: Chemical Documents Analysis of Industry Influence on PFAS Science. Asbestos is another product where the safety risks were suppressed. Asbestos Cover-Up | Corporations Hid the Dangers of Asbestos. Major car manufactures lied about harmful emissions or developed software to deceive test equipment (Dieselgate). I could drone on with examples...but more probably to Johns point is that blind trust (or without knowingly reliable information) of corporations desiring to make profits is not acceptable anymore. Cheers.