Interesting aggresive behaviour by Raven toward sheep (3 Viewers)

[dandare]

While out on my patch this morning, I saw a Raven pecking furiously at an unidentifiable item on the ground, the Raven was very vocal and appeared to be quite agitated. It then flew off with the item and landed on a nearby fence post still holding the item, but showing no real interest in it. The Raven(still very vocal)remained on the post for for a short while before dropping the item then flying off and landing amongst a flock of sheep, where it proceeded to approach an ewe from behind and aggresively peck at its rear end - subsequently doing the same to two other unwary ewes. There were young lambs with the ewes, but the Raven paid little attention to these.

I'm not sure what to make out of this behaviour??... maybe the Raven was just having a bad day! ||

Thoughts or similar Raven experiences would be welcome?

dan

 

[Eranou]

While out on my patch this morning, I saw a Raven pecking furiously at an unidentifiable item on the ground, the Raven was very vocal and appeared to be quite agitated. It then flew off with the item and landed on a nearby fence post still holding the item, but showing no real interest in it. The Raven(still very vocal)remained on the post for for a short while before dropping the item then flying off and landing amongst a flock of sheep, where it proceeded to approach an ewe from behind and aggresively peck at its rear end - subsequently doing the same to two other unwary ewes. There were young lambs with the ewes, but the Raven paid little attention to these.

I'm not sure what to make out of this behaviour??... maybe the Raven was just having a bad day! ||

Thoughts or similar Raven experiences would be welcome?

dan

Hi dan
Just an off the wall thought but do they use wool for lining nests? Although they'd probably just collect odd bits from the field I suppose.

Richard

 

[nirofo]

While out on my patch this morning, I saw a Raven pecking furiously at an unidentifiable item on the ground, the Raven was very vocal and appeared to be quite agitated. It then flew off with the item and landed on a nearby fence post still holding the item, but showing no real interest in it. The Raven(still very vocal)remained on the post for for a short while before dropping the item then flying off and landing amongst a flock of sheep, where it proceeded to approach an ewe from behind and aggresively peck at its rear end - subsequently doing the same to two other unwary ewes. There were young lambs with the ewes, but the Raven paid little attention to these.

I'm not sure what to make out of this behaviour??... maybe the Raven was just having a bad day! ||

Thoughts or similar Raven experiences would be welcome?

dan

Ravens and other members of the Crow family are well known for pecking at sheep and other livestock that are giving or have given birth to young. Sheep in particular are followed by Ravens and Crows as most hill sheep are in their preferred type of habitat. The birds eat the afterbirth and any other gory bits that hang out of the sheep either during the birth or immediately after it, they have been known to take the eyes out of the lambs while they are being born! In another instance several sheep had their eyes pecked out by Magpies, this happened prior to the sheep giving birth, the vet said the Magpies were after the fluid that was around the sheeps eyes in the later stages of pregnancy and farmers had to be particularly vigilant during this period. Great Black-backed Gulls are also foraging the hill at lambing time, they will take the afterbirths and kill newly born lambs, local shepherds hate these birds and don't hesitate to shoot them when they get the chance.

nirofo.

 

[TerryK]

Some years back, local farmers in my area were shooting ravens on sight after a number of full grown cows had had their eyes pecked out by ravens. One observer even got an attack on vidio. They killed a few birds from the area and the attacks stopped. Most thought it was a learned behaviour from one family.

 

[talon_dfa]

...In another instance several sheep had their eyes pecked out by Magpies, this happened prior to the sheep giving birth, the vet said the Magpies were after the fluid that was around the sheeps eyes...nirofo.

Seems like a lot of effort to acquire a small amount of fluid... If this were in an arid area... maybe...

Magpies and ravens usually start pecking at the eyes of carcasses, since they can't break through the hide easily.

Could this be start of behavior similar to the Keas of New Zealand lapping blood from sheep? Or Galapagos finches getting blood from larger sea birds?

 

[nirofo]

Seems like a lot of effort to acquire a small amount of fluid... If this were in an arid area... maybe...

Magpies and ravens usually start pecking at the eyes of carcasses, since they can't break through the hide easily.

Could this be start of behavior similar to the Keas of New Zealand lapping blood from sheep? Or Galapagos finches getting blood from larger sea birds?

The Magpies were attracted by the fluid initially but then pecked out the eyes of the sheep while they were still alive, they were observed sitting on the head of the sheep and pecking at the eyes. This behaviour was reported in The Sorby Natural History Societies "Sorby Record" some years ago.

nirofo.

 

[talon_dfa]

The Magpies were attracted by the fluid initially but then pecked out the eyes of the sheep while they were still alive, they were observed sitting on the head of the sheep and pecking at the eyes. This behaviour was reported in The Sorby Natural History Societies "Sorby Record" some years ago. nirofo.

nirofo:

I do not doubt that the behavior occurs and has been well documented...

I simply doubt the behavior is stimulated by the fluid acquired vs orientation toward the eyes as an entry point.

There must be a payoff (either energetic or H2O balance or trace element).

I don't see H2O in a moist climate as the reason.

Energy/nutrients acquired from blood and tissue? Yes, (especially if cow or sheep dies later).

Saline/trace elements acquired from fluid? Perhaps.

I do not doubt that the vet said "... the Magpies were after the fluid that was around the sheeps eyes...", I just doubt that he has the evidence for that statement as fact.

Apologies for a very esoteric post.

 

[nirofo]

nirofo:

I do not doubt that the behavior occurs and has been well documented...

I simply doubt the behavior is stimulated by the fluid acquired vs orientation toward the eyes as an entry point.

There must be a payoff (either energetic or H2O balance or trace element).

I don't see H2O in a moist climate as the reason.

Energy/nutrients acquired from blood and tissue? Yes, (especially if cow or sheep dies later).

Saline/trace elements acquired from fluid? Perhaps.

I do not doubt that the vet said "... the Magpies were after the fluid that was around the sheeps eyes...", I just doubt that he has the evidence for that statement as fact.

Apologies for a very esoteric post.

There were other sheep in the area that were not pregnant, they were not bothered by the Magpies, it's possible that there is something in the fluid that attracted the birds that is not present when the sheep are not pregnant. As you say, liquid in the form of H2O is quite plentiful in the area and is obviously not the reason for the Magpies attraction. I think the fact that the birds went on to peck out the eyes was not the original intention and was a bonus as the sheep made no attempt to rid themselves of these birds even when the eye had been penetrated.

nirofo.

 

[dandare]

Ravens and other members of the Crow family are well known for pecking at sheep and other livestock that are giving or have given birth to young. Sheep in particular are followed by Ravens and Crows as most hill sheep are in their preferred type of habitat. The birds eat the afterbirth and any other gory bits that hang out of the sheep either during the birth or immediately after it, they have been known to take the eyes out of the lambs while they are being born! In another instance several sheep had their eyes pecked out by Magpies, this happened prior to the sheep giving birth, the vet said the Magpies were after the fluid that was around the sheeps eyes in the later stages of pregnancy and farmers had to be particularly vigilant during this period. Great Black-backed Gulls are also foraging the hill at lambing time, they will take the afterbirths and kill newly born lambs, local shepherds hate these birds and don't hesitate to shoot them when they get the chance.

nirofo.

Hi nirofo

Pecking at post-birth gory bits is a possibility, but there were only about 10 ewes and 4 lambs(none recently born)in the vicinity of the Raven, also it had a go at 3 different ewes so the chances of them all having gory bits attached to their backends are a bit slim. I'm not very knowledgable(even though I'm welsh) about sheep, but is it possible that they could have worms around their backends and it was trying to feed on these? Other than that I'm stumped!... and can only think that this particular Raven was truly in an aggressive mood and took it out on the sheep?? As i mentioned in my initial post - it did appear to be very agitated and was having a right old go at that piece of whatever it was shortly before.

Thanks for the response chaps
dan

 

[dandare]

Hi dan
Just an off the wall thought but do they use wool for lining nests? Although they'd probably just collect odd bits from the field I suppose.

Richard

Hi Richard

I don't think that the Raven was attempting to get wool as it's a bit late for them to be nest building. I have very occasionally seen Jackdaws stood on a sheeps back pulling wool for lining their nests, so Ravens may well do something similar.

dan

 

[joannec]

but is it possible that they could have worms around their backends and it was trying to feed on these?
dan

Hi Dan

This is what I was thinking too, either worms, flystrike or some kind of parasite.

Joanne

 

[saluki]

There were other sheep in the area that were not pregnant, they were not bothered by the Magpies, it's possible that there is something in the fluid that attracted the birds that is not present when the sheep are not pregnant. As you say, liquid in the form of H2O is quite plentiful in the area and is obviously not the reason for the Magpies attraction. I think the fact that the birds went on to peck out the eyes was not the original intention and was a bonus as the sheep made no attempt to rid themselves of these birds even when the eye had been penetrated.

nirofo.

Hi Nirofo,

Is it not simply a case of opportunism? Fit, healthy sheep are unlikely to put themselves in a position where it's possible for a raven to remove an eye. Ewes giving birth or 'cast' ewes (heavily pregnant ewes that, for whatever reason, end up on their backs and cannot get back up) find it much more difficult to prevent the corvids removing an eye.

I've seen one-eyed ewes many times (I used to work on a sheep farm), but only once have I come across a live ewe with both eyes removed. Odd thing was, if I remember rightyl, she wasn't heavily pregnant and seemed fit and healthy. Only thing I could think was she'd got her head temporarily stuck in a gate or some such. An extremely gruesome sight though.

Jonathan

 

[nirofo]

Quote:dandare.

Hi nirofo
Pecking at post-birth gory bits is a possibility, but there were only about 10 ewes and 4 lambs(none recently born)in the vicinity of the Raven, also it had a go at 3 different ewes so the chances of them all having gory bits attached to their backends are a bit slim. I'm not very knowledgable(even though I'm welsh) about sheep, but is it possible that they could have worms around their backends and it was trying to feed on these? Other than that I'm stumped!... and can only think that this particular Raven was truly in an aggressive mood and took it out on the sheep?? As i mentioned in my initial post - it did appear to be very agitated and was having a right old go at that piece of whatever it was shortly before.

Thanks for the response chaps
dan

Sheep very often suffer from maggot infestation after an open wound is blown by flies, it's possible that this could be what the Ravens were after if the ewes had recently given birth, although it's a bit early in the year for fly blow.

___________________




Quote: Saliki.

Hi Nirofo,

Is it not simply a case of opportunism? Fit, healthy sheep are unlikely to put themselves in a position where it's possible for a raven to remove an eye. Ewes giving birth or 'cast' ewes (heavily pregnant ewes that, for whatever reason, end up on their backs and cannot get back up) find it much more difficult to prevent the corvids removing an eye.

I've seen one-eyed ewes many times (I used to work on a sheep farm), but only once have I come across a live ewe with both eyes removed. Odd thing was, if I remember rightyl, she wasn't heavily pregnant and seemed fit and healthy. Only thing I could think was she'd got her head temporarily stuck in a gate or some such. An extremely gruesome sight though.

Jonathan

Hi Saluki


The sheep that were attacked by Magpies were apparently quite healthy and were free standing at the time of the attack, they made no obvious attempt to stop the birds pecking their eyes and were still feeding on grass after the eyes had gone. They were later checked by the vet, given some form of antibiotics and left to get on with it, I heard some time later that they had survived, reared their lambs and were out on the hill.


nirofo

 

[dandare]

Hi Nirofo,

Is it not simply a case of opportunism? Fit, healthy sheep are unlikely to put themselves in a position where it's possible for a raven to remove an eye. Ewes giving birth or 'cast' ewes (heavily pregnant ewes that, for whatever reason, end up on their backs and cannot get back up) find it much more difficult to prevent the corvids removing an eye.

Hi Jonathan

My local patch contains many upland sheep farms and is prime Raven habitat, flocks of 20 - 30 birds are not uncommon and numbers have reached over 50 on a couple of occassions. I've been birding this area regulary for nearly 30 years and have come across plenty of dying sheep that have just had their eyes plucked out by corvids, but i can honestly say that i have never seen Ravens or any other corvids for that matter attacking fit, healthy sheep or even lambs. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen from time to time and it may well be a case of me being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but i can only speak from my own experience and findings.

dan

 

[nirofo]

Hi Nirofo,

Is it not simply a case of opportunism? Fit, healthy sheep are unlikely to put themselves in a position where it's possible for a raven to remove an eye. Ewes giving birth or 'cast' ewes (heavily pregnant ewes that, for whatever reason, end up on their backs and cannot get back up) find it much more difficult to prevent the corvids removing an eye.

Hi Jonathan

My local patch contains many upland sheep farms and is prime Raven habitat, flocks of 20 - 30 birds are not uncommon and numbers have reached over 50 on a couple of occassions. I've been birding this area regulary for nearly 30 years and have come across plenty of dying sheep that have just had their eyes plucked out by corvids, but i can honestly say that i have never seen Ravens or any other corvids for that matter attacking fit, healthy sheep or even lambs. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen from time to time and it may well be a case of me being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but i can only speak from my own experience and findings.

dan

We too have plenty of Ravens up here in the far north of Scotland and during the Autumn it's not uncommon to see up to 40 birds congregating. This is normal practice for these birds, however, we're now in early Spring and the Ravens are well sat on eggs or have young, it would be unusual at this time to see more than 3 or 4 birds together. In any case it was the Magpies that were observed pecking out the eyes of healthy ewes.

nirofo.

 

[saluki]

I'm not saying that it doesn't happen from time to time and it may well be a case of me being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but i can only speak from my own experience and findings.

dan

That's all any of us can do Dan!

I can't say it was always ravens that removed eyes - more likely hoodies to be honest, as there were far more of them. GBB gulls always appeared around lambing time - it was rare to see them on the hill at any other time. As Nirofo says, the shepherds hated them, though how much damage they did is questionable. Bad farming accounted for far more sheep than predators did, yet I usually found it was the worst farmers who shouted the loudest about controlling corvids and foxes! Funny old world . . .

Jonathan

 

[dandare]

Bad farming accounted for far more sheep than predators did, yet I usually found it was the worst farmers who shouted the loudest about controlling corvids and foxes! Funny old world . . .
Jonathan[/QUOTE]


Same thing in this neck of the woods... I regulary speak with 2 farmers - they are like chalk and cheese as far as farming practices are concerned - one takes good care of his land and stock and i can't say that i've ever heard him moan about predators or even heard a shotgun go off on his land. The least said about the other farmers husbandry the better, he blames most of his losses on foxes and corvids and often gets a bloke up from the village with a .22 to do the business. . . . Funny old world indeed

dan

 

[nirofo]

That's all any of us can do Dan!

I can't say it was always ravens that removed eyes - more likely hoodies to be honest, as there were far more of them. GBB gulls always appeared around lambing time - it was rare to see them on the hill at any other time. As Nirofo says, the shepherds hated them, though how much damage they did is questionable. Bad farming accounted for far more sheep than predators did, yet I usually found it was the worst farmers who shouted the loudest about controlling corvids and foxes! Funny old world . . .

Jonathan

Hi Saluki

It seems that bad shepherds are the same everywhere, blame anything but themselves for poor husbandry! Another blame favourite up here is Golden Eagle, we've had nests where the eggs have been removed and replaced with stones, gin traps set in the nest, rabbit snares in the nest, we've even had them set fire to the eyries in an attempt to stop them breeding, ended up setting the whole hill alight. You're right about the GBB Gulls, you never see them on the hill after the lambing is finished, the shepherds use all sorts of tricks to kill them, including staking out their own recently dead lambs laced with poison. Of course it's not only the poor old GGB that gets it, Golden Eagles, Buzzards, Red Kites, Foxes, Dogs and the Crow family all fall foul to this indescriminate act.

nirofo.