Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment (3 Viewers)

[sushil_yadav]

I thought we had already established that the cause of overpopulation was SEX !! ...... unprotected, unplanned, bored, randy, teenager, subjugated women, religiously decreed, ..... SEX.

I haven't seen the machine yet that can "make" humans.

If you honestly can't see the problem with overpopulation, then you need to scrap the past 20-odd years "research" and go back to the drawing board.

You should learn more about the subject before you rush to post your silly comments.


The one and only cause of environmental destruction is Industrialization.

Overpopulation and Overconsumerism are consequences / by-products of Industrialization.

Without Industrialization there would be no overpopulation and no overconsumerism.

Industrialization, Overpopulation and Overconsumerism happen together.......Industrialization, Overpopulation and Overconsumerism happen at the same time.

It is Industrialization that has led to a population of 7 billion.....Not overbreeding.

The entire world was overbreeding before Industrialization.....The entire world is underbreeding after Industrialization.

There used to be 5 - 15 children per family all over the world before Industrialization and yet world population reached only 1 billion till 1800 AD......After Industrialization the family size reduced drastically, most families are now having 1 - 4 children and yet world population jumped from 1 billion to 7 billion in just about 200 years.

If Industrialization had not happened world population would be less than 2 billion today.

India and China have large populations today because they started with larger populations thousands of years ago since ancient civilizations thrived in these regions.....What was the population of Europe and America 2000 years ago????.....Was it comparable with the population of India and China???? .....And once again, In the absence of Industrialization India and China would not be having large populations today.

If Industrialization had not happened, High death rate would have kept population of the world under control....Diseases caused by virus and bacteria would have kept population under control.....Feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control....Shortage of food and water would have kept population under control.....Harsh Climatic Conditions would have kept population under control - People would not have been able to live in regions that are too hot or too cold.

If Industrialization had not happened this planet would have been in very good condition today.....There would be no overpopulation, no overconsumerism and only limited urbanization.

A Non-Industrial Society would have destroyed some ecosystems on the land [Forests] but Marine Ecology [Oceans] would have been almost 100% safe today......Forest Cover would be much greater than what it is now....Millions of species on the land and in the sea would not have been decimated and would be thriving with very healthy populations......This planet would be free of Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.....The Oceans wouldn't have become Acidic, Warmer and Oxygen Deprived because of Industrial Waste.

It is consumerism that destroys environment, Not population.

A Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food......not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

An Agrarian Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment [compared to an Industrial Society of 7 billion]...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.......not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

[By the way, A Hunter_Gatherer Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion......An Agrarian Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion]

Environment has been destroyed by Industrialization/ Consumerism…….Not by Population/ Overpopulation.

Total World Population has not increased ……It has decreased……In fact total world population has been decimated.

When we talk about population we should take into account population of all animal species on earth, not just human population.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species……Increase in human population has coincided with decrease/ decimation of millions of animal species.... The total burden of population on this planet has not increased…..It has decreased.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of other species......There was a time when the combined population of other animal species was much greater than present human population.....and we don't even need to include smaller animals in this count.....The combined population of big animals alone whose size and weight was equivalent to or greater than man was much greater than current human population of 7 billion.

The amount of food this animal population was eating was much greater than the food consumed by humans today.......Yet millions of animal species did not destroy environment and lived sustainably on earth for millions of years......because they destroyed environment only for food and not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

If animals had started a consumerist "Industrial Society" millions of years ago they would have destroyed all ecosystems millions of years ago.

The entire world has been trying to control human population for 50 years and these efforts should / will continue in future.....so where is the problem with population?????

It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to complain about overpopulation when it itself is the cause of overpopulation......It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to make attempts to control population while promoting Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP exponentially.

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[chris butterworth]

This is the first time I've looked at this thread but it seems the OP's argument boils down to a return to a 'golden age' of village living with each family providing for itself.
A couple of questions for him.
Which families will live in the areas better suited to self sufficiency - and who will decide?
How, as industrial society has destroyed most of the forests, will those families without access to firewood provide.
As a major anthropogenic cause of desertification, in Africa and India, is pastoral overgrazing what will he suggest to limit this?
As humans will continue to have sex, and therefore children, how does the OP think this can be changed?
On the subject of drugs, recreational ones in particular, does the OP consider his opposition to them a trifle hypocritical? After all, most were discovered, and used, by pre-industrial societies.
As certain groups, under his plan, will have fewer natural resources than others does the OP believe that there would not be a build-up of resentment leading to conflict - and the rise of 'strong men' within those groups - and a resurrection of pre-industrial warfare? By the way look at the proportion of the human population killed by Genghis Khan and compare it to WW 2 - you may be surprised.
A lot of the OP's opinions seem to eminate from a belief in the 'soul' and other religious concepts. Does the OP have any idea about the world wide 'belief system' that he would have to impose on others as thre are bound to be people who disagree?
Just a few questions, no need to rush to answer them.

Chris the industrialised, sexually active, atheist.

 

[sushil_yadav]

This is the first time I've looked at this thread but it seems the OP's argument boils down to a return to a 'golden age' of village living with each family providing for itself.

This is your conclusion not mine.

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This planet is home to millions of species, not just man alone.

Millions of other species get only food from earth....The maximum that man can/ should get is food, clothing and shelter.
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A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been less than 2 billion today.

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment.

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.

We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated.

We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial Activity must be primarily limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.
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[chris butterworth]

Without modern methods of transport - you yourself have berated trains etc, products of the industrial society - village living is the only viable alternative. Unless you've come up with some plan to distribute the food, clothes and shelter to those living in cities. Your whole argument collapses as soon as transport is removed as its only remaining proposition is some kind of wooly 'spiritual' thing involving 'the soul'. Pre-industrial society - and you've got to go back to the pre-Neolithic for that - was composed of small family groups. Just admit it, even in the agriculturalist society you envisage industrialisation raises its head everywhere. Who, or what, would produce the steel for ploughs for a start? How would those who produce the food get to the fields? Live in scattered villages throughout the farming areas? See the previous post. The argument you put forward, albeit with good intentions, has not been thought through but is solely based on some imaginary 'panacea for the world's ills'. Instead of spending so much time in pointless pseudo-philosophy get out and make a practical difference, as many in the 'West' are doing.

Chris

 

[sushil_yadav]

Instead of spending so much time in pointless pseudo-philosophy get out and make a practical difference, as many in the 'West' are doing
Chris

You are right....The solutions will come from the west....The west has taken the copyright to making all solutions in the world.

Just look at all the grand solutions made in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Do you know the ground reality???.....Do you know the net result of all the practical differences being made by the west to save the environment????

Billions of animals are being slaughtered in Industrial Slaughter Houses every day.....Billions of fish are being killed by Industrial Fishing every day....Millions of acres of Forests are being destroyed by Industrial Activity every day....Millions of wild animals in forests are being killed by Industrial Activity every day.....Millions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste is being added to environment every day....Millions of tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste and eWaste are being added to environment every day.... Millions of acres of Fertile Soil is being killed by Cement, Concrete and Asphalt every day....Nuclear Industry has produced millions of tonnes of Nuclear Waste which will keep contaminating the planet with hazardous radioactivity for the next thousands of years.
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Billions of pages of Environmental Discussion....Thousands of Environmental Organizations....Millions of Environmental Activists....Hundreds of Environmental Theories and Terminologies....Billions of dollars of Environmental Protection Funds.

Net Result......Hardly any environment left on earth.

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**Story of Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society.**
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A Serial Killer with endless supply of ammunition goes on the rampage in the city.....The Police are informed.....They arrive on the scene.....They do not try to stop or capture the shooter.....They do not try to kill or incapacitate the shooter.....They allow him to continue shooting......They give him full liberty to move around all over the city.

The Police focus on the victims of shooting.....They take them to Hospitals and try to save them with the help of best Technology / Health Care.....The Government sets up thousands of Organizations to do research on how the Whites can be saved, How the Blacks can be saved, How the Asians can be saved, How the Young can be saved, How the Elderly can be saved.....The Government gives Billions of Dollars of Grant to "Think Tanks" and NGO's to find out how the victims can be saved.....People of the city engage in Billions of pages of Discussion, Debate and Argument to find a solution to the problem.

This is not the story of the Mass Shooter.....This is the story of Environmentalism in Industrial Society.

Environment is being destroyed by Industrial Activity........Environmental Activists and Organizations are trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity

One group is trying to save Forests......The second group is trying to save Rivers......The third group is trying to save Oceans......The fourth group is trying to make the Air clean......The fifth group is trying to save Tigers and Elephants......The sixth group is trying to save Whales and Dolphins.

Industrial Technology has destroyed environment........Industrial Society is trying to save environment by changing the Technology.

Bring this Technology, Bring that Technology........Bring this Technology, Bring that Technology.

Height of Insanity and Abnormality......This is like trying to save a victim of shooting not by stopping the shooting but by changing the gun.

People who are trying to save environment in Industrial Society without stopping all Industrial Activity deserve the Nobel Prize for Lunacy.

Why don't people realize the futility and absurdity of their efforts......It is impossible to save animals, trees, air, water and land without stopping all Industrial Activity.

What is the point in saving a few Dogs, Cats, Whales, Tigers and Elephants when Industrial Society is killing billions of animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses and billions of Wild Animals in Forests by destroying Forests with Industrial Activities like Mining Industry, Logging Industry, Construction Industry, Energy Generation Industry, Manufacturing Industry, millions of kilometers of Rail and Road Networks and ever expanding Towns and Cities.......Industrial Society is also killing billions of fish in the oceans with Industrial Fishing and through discharge of billions of tonnes of Industrial Waste into oceans which has made them poisonous, acidic, warmer and created oxygen-deprived dead zones in the oceans.

It is impossible to save Air, water and Land without stopping all Industrial Activity because Industrial Activity is killing them with trillions of tonnes of Metal waste, Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.......Industrial Activity produces trillions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Waste and there are only three places on earth where all this waste can go....Air, water and Soil.....There is no fourth place on earth where this waste can go...... It is impossible for Rivers, Oceans, Atmosphere and Soil to be clean in Industrial Society.

This planet can only sustain a Hunter_Gatherer Society or an Agrarian Society......Not an Industrial Society.

All Environmentalism is Pseudo-Environmentalism in Industrial Society.......It is impossible to save environment in an Industrial Society.

People who pretend they are saving environment in Industrial Society are even more insane, abnormal and criminal than people who are destroying the environment.

It is impossible to save environment in Industrial Society because Industrialization itself is the cause of environmental destruction.........In a non-industrial society environmentalism was not even needed.......In the absence of Industrial Activity environment got saved automatically because only limited destruction of environment was possible without Industrial Machines.

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Environment has been destroyed by Industrial Activity........Trying to save environment without stopping Industrial Activity is like ..

Trying to save a victim of shooting by shooting him even more.

Trying to save a victim of stabbing by stabbing him even more.

Trying to save a victim of poisoning by giving him even more poison.

Height of Insanity, Abnormality and Criminality.......You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.

Industrial Society has been destroying Extra environment for 250 years........It has been destroying environment for "thousands of consumer goods and services" in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

You cannot save a person after killing him.......You cannot save environment after it has been killed by Industrial Activity.

The entire Industrial Society deserves the Nobel Prize for Lunacy for pretending that environment is getting saved when the reality is that Industrial Society has been destroying extra environment after industrialization and has destroyed so much extra environment in 250 years that there is hardly any environment left to save.

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What is the Result of 50 years of Environmentalism/ Pseudo Environmentalism in Industrial Society???

Industrial Society has been killing millions of times more Animals, Trees, Air, Water and Land than Pre-Industrial Society every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing millions of acres of Forests with Industrial Activity every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing Billions of Animals in Industrial Slaughter Houses every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing millions of Wild Animals by destroying the Forests where they live with Industrial Activity every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing Air, Water and Soil with millions of tonnes of Solid, Liquid and Gaseous Industrial Waste every day for several decades.....Industrial Society has been killing Rivers, Oceans, Air/ Atmosphere and Soil/ Land with millions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic waste, Gaseous waste, Chemical Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste every day for several decades.

Industrial Society has been killing Millions of Acres of Fertile Soil with Cement, Concrete and Asphalt every day for several decades.

All this Killing / Destruction was absent in Pre-Industrial Society without any Environmentalism.

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[Jos Stratford]

Yawn, yawn yawn, West destroyed this, West did that. World is buggered, pre-industrial society was a utopia. What a load of tosh.

After all your pages of regurgitation, maybe time to come up with your proposal or shut up?

 

[birdboybowley]

....or shut up?

God, yes please! This freak makes CPBell seem interesting - and that's saying something

 

[MJB]

God, yes please! This freak makes CPBell seem interesting - and that's saying something

He's going to use up all the letters and words and leave none for us!3
MJB

 

[Chris D]

I'll go for Clovis Hunters getting down to California 13 thousand years ago for the High Point of things. No more snow. Hot women. And you don't have to try hard to spear shit. The mammoths think you're a harmless penguin. Your brain works great. Folks are fit as fiddles. Some cool songs around the campfire. Chilli peppers for the Sloth ribs. See fantastic new species - kill them - eat them. Nobody complaining about domestic cats yet. Have Whitey in the 21st century blame it (all the extinctions you're causing) on climate change (back then). Perfect. No big fat dude yet (with all the ideas) to give a special bucket of smashed seeds to. No fat toad kids - from eating too many crushed seed cakes mixed with high fructose corn syrup. Sure, no beer - but the joint is covered in magic mushrooms.

 

[sushil_yadav]

God, yes please! This freak makes CPBell seem interesting - and that's saying something

Freak is the one who posts one or two lines that have nothing to do with the issue being discussed in the thread.

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[Chosun Juan]

Sushil, ...... seriously, name calling?

Is that the best you can do?

Are you being "crazy" ? or just plain "silly" ?

I think you long ago ran out of intellectual horsepower.

Your statements are full of illogical contradictions and your "arguments" are so riddled full of holes, that they could become an effective template for defensive skyscraper design.

Why not engage with your audience and answer Chris B's (post#282) well put questions? If you can ......


Chosun :gh:

 

[fugl]

Freak is the one who posts one or two lines that have nothing to do with the issue being discussed in the thread..

Discussed? Oh, c'mon, you don't "discuss", you just make the same pontifications over and over again in the forlorn hope of bullying us into acceptance of your fat-headed views.

Ignorant soul, do you not remember the words of the Holy Book? "As a dog returneth to its vomit, so the fool returneth to his folly".

 

[chris butterworth]

I'd like to add Polynesia, the Caribbean and Australia to Chris D's point about areas of pre-industrial human caused mass extinction. As more archeological work is carried out in the Amazon basin and Central America it is emerging that pre-industrial degredation of the environment was the cause for the abandonment of cities and collapse of cultures in many, many cases. Iraq and Afghanistan? I suggest you look beyond your narrow horizons and find out about the massive opposition in the 'West' to those two political adventures and also read up on the pre-Raj history of your own country, in particular the time of the Mughal. As for your abuse of those of us in the 'West' attempting to do something to preserve the environment while you sit in your ivory tower of the internet pontificating about 'souls' and a 'return to the golden age' that smacks of hypocrisy and more than a little racism. In fact your whole diatribe has been nothing more than a thinly disguised racist rant and I suggest the moderators shut this thread down forthwith.

Chris

 

[fugl]

. . .that smacks of hypocrisy and more than a little racism. In fact your whole diatribe has been nothing more than a thinly disguised racist rant and I suggest the moderators shut this thread down forthwith.

Surely an over-reaction. Sushil's just a harmless crank who's provided good clean fun for many us since 2006 (2006!, would you believe it?). He's said nothing explicitly about race anywhere (& who cares what goes on between the lines?), the sole villains in his diatribes always being "Westerners". Hypocrisy, now that's another story!

Iraq & Afghanistan?

His constant references to these places are transparent attempts to get our goats & should be ignored. Whatever one might think of those adventures, they're a mere sideshow compared to his other obsessions--"industrialization", "ecocide", etc., etc, blah, blah, blah.

 

[chris butterworth]

Surely an over-reaction. Sushil's just a harmless crank who's provided good clean fun for many us since 2006 (2006!, would you believe it?). He's said nothing explicitly about race anywhere (& who cares what goes on between the lines?), the sole villains in his diatribes always being "Westerners". .

I agree the average persons view of 'racism' may not fit Sushil's diatribes but ...... ( there's always a 'but' ) ... it's sits fairly and squarely in the UN's description. I'm afraid racism is racism, even if the perpetrator is viewed as a harmless raving loony.

Chris

 

[Chris D]

Cool! I stirred some shit. Anyway, 36 Mammalian Genera went extinct at the end of the Pleistocene in the Americas. Underappreciated in my opinion. Tim Flannery's got the great smack about the Australasian region.

 

[chris butterworth]

Cool! I stirred some shit. Anyway, 36 Mammalian Genera went extinct at the end of the Pleistocene in the Americas. Underappreciated in my opinion. Tim Flannery's got the great smack about the Australasian region.

:t:

Chris

 

[MJB]

Tim Flannery's got the great smack about the Australasian region.

Indeed. Mention the name Tim Flannery to the guy who's in charge of the long Sydney Airport Biosecurity queue to enter Australia, answer his basic questions, and he shifts you to the priority queue...
MJB

 

[fugl]

I agree the average persons view of 'racism' may not fit Sushil's diatribes but ...... ( there's always a 'but' ) ... it's sits fairly and squarely in the UN's description

What if instead of "industrialization", Sushil was inveighing against "western imperialism" (as numerous third-worlders have done & still do) would that also count as "racism" in your eyes? It sure wouldn't in mine.

Racism is a very serious charge and in my opinion shouldn't be bandied about lightly.

 

[Chris D]

Mr. Flannery also coined the phrase, 'The Black Hole'. ------ it being the point between the 'nose and chin' of modern humans - in relation to many modern era extinctions. Whilst this Auzzie dude is a tad contoversial / and I'm not totally in his camp (introducing elephants to the Americas) one must give praise to someone with so many new species decriptions (Mammalian / New Guinea).

The fruiting trees that have no more Mammoth users keep many of my Celestial wives busy with the picking of such fruits. (The news from the colonies).........