Independent birding in Nepal (1 Viewer)

[YuShan]

It's not a pissing contest, most people who use this site are primarily birders, not hardcore 'outdoorsmen',

Sure, and I don't want to make it one.

But isn't it a reasonable assumption that people who consider a trek in the Nepalese Himalaya already understand that it is more challenging than a walk in a city park? It shouldn't be a surprise that climbing mountains takes more effort. So when you talk about tough or easy, should you not compare it to walks that are similar to it (i.e. other mountain treks)?

Seeing it in that context, the Nepalese teahouse trekking is really not that tough. Trails are good standard, you hardly have to carry anything because the teahouses provide food and lodging, you can even get a porter if you want, you cannot get lost on the standard routes, etc.

You seem to be offended by my post, but all I wanted to point out is that people who have walked in mountain areas before shouldn't feel intimidated and pass on the excellent hiking and birding opportunity that Nepal offers.

Interestingly, the hikers who get into trouble in Nepal are usually not the unfit but more often fit, sporty types who think the elevation acclimatisation schemes don't apply to them because their fitness is above average.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Sure, and I don't want to make it one.

But isn't it a reasonable assumption that people who consider a trek in the Nepalese Himalaya already understand that it is more challenging than a walk in a city park? It shouldn't be a surprise that climbing mountains takes more effort. So when you talk about tough or easy, should you not compare it to walks that are similar to it (i.e. other mountain treks)?

Seeing it in that context, the Nepalese teahouse trekking is really not that tough. Trails are good standard, you hardly have to carry anything because the teahouses provide food and lodging, you can even get a porter if you want, you cannot get lost on the standard routes, etc.

You seem to be offended by my post, but all I wanted to point out is that people who have walked in mountain areas before shouldn't feel intimidated and pass on the excellent hiking and birding opportunity that Nepal offers.

Interestingly, the hikers who get into trouble in Nepal are usually not the unfit but more often fit, sporty types who think the elevation acclimatisation schemes don't apply to them because their fitness is above average.

Absolutely not, having spent six weeks trekking there, I feel more than qualified to comment, based on what we saw, a great many people are totally unprepared. I know instances where birders have been removed from much less challenging tours than this, because they couldn't handle it.

'Trekking' to Everest base camp seems to hold some romantic appeal to some but looking at it from your sofa and then doing it, are miles apart. I've done some hardcore birding but parts of the Himalaya are amongst the toughest I've done, near vertical in places, bag on back or not.

Short treks, 5 days or whatever, are one thing but tea houses or not, you get in trouble when you're a weeks walk from any help and it's not a fun prospect. You can insist all you like that it's no big deal, I know a very great many people who would disagree.

 

[YuShan]

Well, at least readers on Birdforum can now make a balanced judgement based on what was posted in this topic

 

[Andy Adcock]

Well, at least readers on Birdforum can now make a balanced judgement based on what was posted in this topic

True.......:t:

 

[James Eaton]

Sure, and I don't want to make it one.

But isn't it a reasonable assumption that people who consider a trek in the Nepalese Himalaya already understand that it is more challenging than a walk in a city park? It shouldn't be a surprise that climbing mountains takes more effort. So when you talk about tough or easy, should you not compare it to walks that are similar to it (i.e. other mountain treks)?

Seeing it in that context, the Nepalese teahouse trekking is really not that tough. Trails are good standard, you hardly have to carry anything because the teahouses provide food and lodging, you can even get a porter if you want, you cannot get lost on the standard routes, etc.

You seem to be offended by my post, but all I wanted to point out is that people who have walked in mountain areas before shouldn't feel intimidated and pass on the excellent hiking and birding opportunity that Nepal offers.

Interestingly, the hikers who get into trouble in Nepal are usually not the unfit but more often fit, sporty types who think the elevation acclimatisation schemes don't apply to them because their fitness is above average.

I agree with all of this, particularly the latter paragraph.

In comparison with trekking in other parts of Asia, Nepal is very pleasant for a birders trek - the teahouses makes for a relaxed trek at a steady pace with plenty of birdlife, and in addition to that, you don't suffer from the humidity that you do in the tropics, on grim muddy trails, with just a mix of rice and instant noodles.

When I think of Himalayan trekking, it excites me, and I look forward to it, which is about the opposite I feel to trekking anywhere else in the region, as I know it'll be a slog and I'm doing it purely for a certain target, and not to enjoy myself!

If you pick the right season, the chances of rain is also very much reduced, rather than the unpredictably of the tropics.

I should add that I always hire a porter, even if I can carry it myself, just to ease the burden - all I do is leave my stuff the previous evening with the porter and agree on an end point, or to meet me at lunch, along the trail, so then I still have the day to myself.

Heading over mountain passes, trekking isn't my thing, I'll stick to the drivable passes, but for the lower, forested slopes and open country, I'm really looking forward to returning to Nepal, when I'm able to again.

James

 

[Andy Adcock]

I agree with all of this, particularly the latter paragraph.

In comparison with trekking in other parts of Asia, Nepal is very pleasant for a birders trek - the teahouses makes for a relaxed trek at a steady pace with plenty of birdlife, and in addition to that, you don't suffer from the humidity that you do in the tropics, on grim muddy trails, with just a mix of rice and instant noodles.

When I think of Himalayan trekking, it excites me, and I look forward to it, which is about the opposite I feel to trekking anywhere else in the region, as I know it'll be a slog and I'm doing it purely for a certain target, and not to enjoy myself!

If you pick the right season, the chances of rain is also very much reduced, rather than the unpredictably of the tropics.

I should add that I always hire a porter, even if I can carry it myself, just to ease the burden - all I do is leave my stuff the previous evening with the porter and agree on an end point, or to meet me at lunch, along the trail, so then I still have the day to myself.

Heading over mountain passes, trekking isn't my thing, I'll stick to the drivable passes, but for the lower, forested slopes and open country, I'm really looking forward to returning to Nepal, when I'm able to again.

James

The first highlighted paragraph is at odds with the second James, unless you've done some longer treks which you haven't, I don't know how you can describe it in such terms. Yes it's 'pleasant' and spectacular but in parts, parts you haven't been to, it's tough.

All I'm trying to do, is introduce some perspective, away from the seemingly blasé attitude of some. Not everyone is a regular trekker or serious walker with good fitness levels, it may well be considered easy by some but ask yourself why none of the big tour companies offer Nepal, at least I'm not aware that they do. It's not simply the fact that there's only one endemic, if people thought it was easy, many more birders would do it.

It's often a long hard slog of steep up and then steep down and getting higer every day so the effort required to breath is greater. I had six weeks of it, covering 300km, a lot of it well above 3000m, birding, trekking was neccessary.

One trekking company site writes regarding the trek to Poon Hill

You have to hike for 7 hours in very steep and rugged terrain. Note- The trail faces numerous uphill section

This is what I remember and yes, this is by comparison to other parts of the Himalaya, easy.

How did you get to Poon Hill btw James?

 

[Andy Adcock]

I spent a wonderful week in Nepal about six years ago doing something similar to what you mention - my main intention was to bird the Terai and get as high as possible, as easily as possible. I visited Chitwan for two days (the best Terai habitat I've visited), absolutely wonderful, staying at Gaida Lodge, which is run by Tika Ram Giri, one of Nepal's most well-known birders.
Following that I did the Poon Hill trek - this is just 4-5 nights and gets you above 3000m. I recommend staying two nights at the summit, because the ridge is absolutely wonderful and full of birds. Bird early, so you get ahead of the crowd - I usually had half morning all to myself, and also late afternoon, and explored off trail the rest of the time.

Poon Hill is under $10 a day, but add in a porter, that's an extra $10 a day. You could go further with the trekking but that would be more for trekking than birding, as the habitat around Poon Hill is wonderful.

On top of that, 1-2 days at Pulchowki near Kathmandu and you'd have a wonderful time. Can't recommend it enough.

James

It should be well under, we often paid c40p per night. Did you know that traditionally, accommodation in Nepal was free, they make their money from food and in staying at a place, you enter in to an unspoken, social contract to eat with them.

We never haggled over accommodation costs, it was that cheap but we did meet people who had and they indeed, managed to get free accommodation on the proviso that they ate there. I think, if you were so inclined, you can probably still do this at many places though not Poon Hill, too touristy there, they don't need to compromise on price.

One place I stayed at, my contact lens solution froze, in the room!

 

[James Eaton]

The first highlighted paragraph is at odds with the second James, unless you've done some longer treks which you haven't, I don't know how you can describe it in such terms. Yes it's 'pleasant' and spectacular but in parts, parts you haven't been to, it's tough.

It's often a long hard slog of steep up and then steep down and getting higer every day so the effort required to breath is greater. I had six weeks of it, covering 300km, a lot of it well above 3000m, birding, trekking was neccessary.

All I'm trying to do, is introduce some perspective, not the seemingly blasé attitude of some. Not everyone is a regular trekker or serious walker with good fitness levels, it may well be considered easy by some but ask yourself why none of the big tour companies offer Nepal, at least I'm not aware that they do. It's not simply the fact that there's only one endemic, if people thought it was easy, many more birders would do it.

One trekking company site writes regarding the trek to Poon Hill

You have to hike for 7 hours in very steep and rugged terrain. Note- The trail faces numerous uphill section

This is what I remeber and yes, this is by comparison to other parts of the Himalaya, easy.

How did you get to Poon Hill btw James?

I walked up to Poon Hill. A short trip of just a few days - I tried it from two different trails, and enjoyed it so much, I'm very keen to return, and do a little in addition, perhaps head further west in Nepal.

There is a very simple reason why bird tours would not do Nepal trekking - birdwise, everything, bar perhaps Spot-winged Rosefinch (which was one of the main targets for my trip) can be seen from the comforts of lovely lodges in India, either Valley of Flowers National Park, Sat Tal area, or in Sikkim.

Personally, I would have no hesitation running a tour to Poon Hill, as it's far easier than many walks involving camping I guide elsewhere. But, there is no targeted birding reason to do so. It's also a bit of a drag getting to Pokhara - flights are still regularly cancelled due to the cloud cover, and that drive is a really scary, horrid one, when my dared look, anyway.

James

 

[Andy Adcock]

I walked up to Poon Hill. A short trip of just a few days - I tried it from two different trails, and enjoyed it so much, I'm very keen to return, and do a little in addition, perhaps head further west in Nepal.

There is a very simple reason why bird tours would not do Nepal trekking - birdwise, everything, bar perhaps Spot-winged Rosefinch (which was one of the main targets for my trip) can be seen from the comforts of lovely lodges in India, either Valley of Flowers National Park, Sat Tal area, or in Sikkim.

Personally, I would have no hesitation running a tour to Poon Hill, as it's far easier than many walks involving camping I guide elsewhere. But, there is no targeted birding reason to do so. It's also a bit of a drag getting to Pokhara - flights are still regularly cancelled due to the cloud cover, and that drive is a really scary, horrid one, when my dared look, anyway.

James

James,
my only gripe here is that you seem to be categorisng all Nepalese treks the same, based on one, short, easyish walk at low altitude.

You write

'When I think of Himalayan trekking, it excites me, and I look forward to it'.....because you haven't done much!

Here's what that same trekking company says of Annapurna.

Annapurna circuit Trek is an exciting, diverse, yet challenging trek. The trek is also the 2nd longest trek in Annapurna Region Trek and we have to cover 128 miles of four districts (Lamjung, Manang, Mustang and Myagdi) and two zones (Gandaki and Dhaulagiri) in 20 days trek; therefore it demands extra physical stamina, courage and prior preparation.

It boils down to the fact that we have different opinions, however, I worry that some, will undertake a trek, badly informed of the real demands.

 

[James Eaton]

.....because you haven't done much!

Lucky it's not a pissing contest, ay, Andy :t:

 

[YuShan]

Nepal is fantastic. I visited two times (2013 and 2014) and spend a total of about 8 weeks trekking there.

The first hike was just 4 days Gorepani/ Poon Hill area. Birding was fantastic! I would highly recommend this to people who don't want to go for a very long trek and still get a taste of Nepal and the birds. Very a-typical for October, I had lots of rain but still enjoyed it so much that I wanted more.

After this trek, I moved to Chitwan in the lowlands, which was also fantastic for birding. Of course species there are completely different.

Then I moved back to the highlands for the next trek: the Langtang area. Including side trips away from the standard route, I spent about 10 days there. I have fond memories about it. The owner of the teahouse where I stayed in Kyanyin Gompa had lived there his entire life and was able to describe many birds and their behaviour without actually knowing their names. For example, he described how he often saw the Nepali national bird (Himalayan Monal) being captured by the "black eagles" (Golden Eagle) but never by the brown ones (Bearded Vulture - of course they won't take life prey). He also described a bird with a long bill that he often saw near the glacier outflow. I figured it could only be an Ibisbill, so I spent an afternoon looking for it (and found it). Wonderful memories!

I enjoyed the hiking in Nepal so much that I went back to Nepal a short 4 months later. This time for a 6 week trekking-only visit, during which I explored the Khumbu and added quite a few lifers again.

I have to say though that my focus is always on enjoying the whole thing and not just to get ticks on my life-list. I'm not too obsessed about getting every possible bird, I just see what I come across and I like surprises. So I had not done any research where to find which bird. I just went hiking armed with a fieldguide. But there is an incredible range of birds that you come across while simply hiking for many days. I got 159 lifers on my treks in Nepal

 

[YuShan]

It's also a bit of a drag getting to Pokhara - flights are still regularly cancelled due to the cloud cover, and that drive is a really scary, horrid one, when my dared look, anyway.

Wait till you get to Langtang. On one section of the road along a ravine, there had just been a landslide. Everybody had to get out of the bus and walk for about 200 metres, because they didn't want everybody to die in case the bus would crash into the ravine, which looked like a very realistic possibility! :-O

On the same bus later on, the bus was full, so many people were sitting in the roof. Then the bus needed to brake suddenly and some people fell on the road. One guy had a pretty bad concussion I think but he still went back on the bus, but we had a 1 hour delay because 2 people needed to see a doctor.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Lucky it's not a pissing contest, ay, Andy :t:

Understatement must be an Eaton family trait, I remember you Dad once informing me that 'Russian is one of the easier languages to learn', I assume his experience of that language is equal to your trekking....

 

[Andy Adcock]

Wait till you get to Langtang. On one section of the road along a ravine, there had just been a landslide. Everybody had to get out of the bus and walk for about 200 metres, because they didn't want everybody to die in case the bus would crash into the ravine, which looked like a very realistic possibility! :-O

On the same bus later on, the bus was full, so many people were sitting in the roof. Then the bus needed to brake suddenly and some people fell on the road. One guy had a pretty bad concussion I think but he still went back on the bus, but we had a 1 hour delay because 2 people needed to see a doctor.

Is the Lantang fully open again?

Many of the tea houses and trails were totally destroyed in the earthquake.

 

[James Eaton]

Understatement must be an Eaton family trait, I remember you Dad once informing me that 'Russian is one of the easier languages to learn', I assume his experience of that language is equal to your trekking....

русский не так сложен, не так ли?

 

[YuShan]

Is the Lantang full open again?

Many of the tea houses and trails were totally destroyed in the earthquake.

I think it is open again, but Langtang village was completely buried by a landslide. I compared my own pictures of the village with pictures after the earthquake and it was unbelievable: simply no village, just mud and stones. But I think they rebuilt much of it.

During my hike I was stuck for one day in one small teahouse in Langtang village, where I spent the entire day with this Nepali family around the stove drinking tea. It was really nice, we talked about so many things. Chances are that they are dead now.

Because I was there during a heavy storm, there was so much water flowing from very steep mountains on both sides and I remember feeling a slightly uneasy about it at the time and even thought about the implications of an earthquake. I lived in Taiwan for a few years and there they had a similar case of a mountain village being completely buried just a few years before that earthquake in Nepal happened.

 

[James Eaton]

Nepal is fantastic. I visited two times (2013 and 2014) and spend a total of about 8 weeks trekking there.

The first hike was just 4 days Gorepani/ Poon Hill area. Birding was fantastic! I would highly recommend this to people who don't want to go for a very long trek and still get a taste of Nepal and the birds. Very a-typical for October, I had lots of rain but still enjoyed it so much that I wanted more.

After this trek, I moved to Chitwan in the lowlands, which was also fantastic for birding. Of course species there are completely different.

Then I moved back to the highlands for the next trek: the Langtang area. Including side trips away from the standard route, I spent about 10 days there. I have fond memories about it. The owner of the teahouse where I stayed in Kyanyin Gompa had lived there his entire life and was able to describe many birds and their behaviour without actually knowing their names. For example, he described how he often saw the Nepali national bird (Himalayan Monal) being captured by the "black eagles" (Golden Eagle) but never by the brown ones (Bearded Vulture - of course they won't take life prey). He also described a bird with a long bill that he often saw near the glacier outflow. I figured it could only be an Ibisbill, so I spent an afternoon looking for it (and found it). Wonderful memories!

I enjoyed the hiking in Nepal so much that I went back to Nepal a short 4 months later. This time for a 6 week trekking-only visit, during which I explored the Khumbu and added quite a few lifers again.

I have to say though that my focus is always on enjoying the whole thing and not just to get ticks on my life-list. I'm not too obsessed about getting every possible bird, I just see what I come across and I like surprises. So I had not done any research where to find which bird. I just went hiking armed with a fieldguide. But there is an incredible range of birds that you come across while simply hiking for many days. I got 159 lifers on my treks in Nepal

The Central Himalaya really is wonderful - if you haven't been in late April/early May I'd recommend trying then too. The rhododendrons are in full bloom, and with the bird song livening up the valleys, it's my favourite month I've been.

I'd also recommend heading further west into India, the treks in-and-above Great Himalayan National Park and Daranghati Sanctuary in Himachal Pradesh I've really enjoyed, though spring arrives later into May here. I've only touched the edges of a couple of treks in Jammu and Kashmir, but considerably less crowds and a shift in avifauna it's also very enjoyable.

I had hoped to return to Sikkim next month, but it's not looking promising!

James

 

[Andy Adcock]

русский не так сложен, не так ли?

Here then, Mr Google............8-P

Привет, Джеймс, как дела? Русский не очень сложный язык, конечно, однако это может зависеть от того, насколько сложную беседу вы намерены поддерживать. Выбирайте: струнная теория или органическая химия?

 

[YuShan]

The Central Himalaya really is wonderful - if you haven't been in late April/early May I'd recommend trying then too. The rhododendrons are in full bloom, and with the bird song livening up the valleys, it's my favourite month I've been.

My 319 km Khumbu trek was in March-April 2014. I started in Jiri and ended in Jiri, crossing what the Nepalese call "the middle hills" (which are actually 1500-3500m :-O ). So the middle hill part I hiked twice, about a month apart. By April the rhododendrons were blooming and sunbirds were feeding in them. Lots of birds had arrived from lower elevations.

However, in April the trail starts getting more crowded and the sky is getting more hazy. That's why I started in the beginning of March. The risk of course is that you can still get some snow (which I did, but not too much), but the skies are generally clear around that time.

I posted it already but my hike report is here (including route map): https://www.hikingbirdman.com/khumbu/

 

[DMW]

I think the reason Nepal isn't so popular these days isn't really the difficulty of trekking (commercial tour companies such as BirdQuest and NatureTrek did do birding treks to Nepal), but a combination of the Maoist insurgency and the opening-up of Arunachal Pradesh to foreigners. These pretty much pushed Nepal off the radar as a major birding destination.

As an all-round experience though, I think it's hard to beat the Nepalese tea house treks. Once you set-off, there are no hassles, no logistical issues, incredible scenery, fascinating villages, and fantastic birding in varied habitats. I've birded all over the Himalayas, and I still rate the treks in Nepal as the most enjoyable.

In purely birding terms, the best trek I've done is the Hponkanrazi trek in the very far north of Burma. Sadly, I think that area is once-again off-limits due to insurgency.