Hornbill spp, C.160km SE Windhoek Namibia (summer 2010) (2 Viewers)

[dwatsonbirder]

I've been trawling through some old photos in order to attempt to calculate how many species I've seen, and I found these photos.
My notes from the time aren't much help sadly "grey and white hornbill, spotted wing coverts, white in the tail, heavy orange/yellow bill", luckily my notes have improved in the following 14 years!
I've recorded this as Southern Yellow-billed (on account of what appears to be some pale areas on the face and possibly a white supercilium), but I'm wondering if Monteiro's can be excluded from these (admittedly terrible) images? The two species shouldn't really pose any identification issues, but the angle is such that I can't be quite sure, and I believe both species occur at this location.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Looks Like Damara Red-billed to me without books to hand?

 

[Jos Stratford]

Monteiro's Hornbill I think. Damara Red-billed is also not common south of Windhoek.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Monteiro's Hornbill I think. Damara Red-billed is also not south of Windhoek.

Seems to have a white line from bill to nape, not good for Monteiro's.

 

[Jos Stratford]

Not entirely clear, looks dark-faced in first image. Damara typically looks very pale faced, this doesn't not appear to me as that.

 

[dwatsonbirder]

Thanks both - I'm wondering if the apparent white markings on the face are as a result of very strong light/poor photography? E.g. here and here (better photos, but show the effect of strong light?). Also it appears that Monteiro's can show a white supercilium - as here.

 

[Butty]

I think the banana bill-shape (pic 1, which is more in profile) is better for southern yellow-billed hornbill - and I can almost convince myself (© @Alexander Stöhr) of a whitish supercilium.

 

[dwatsonbirder]

Thanks for the input so far, a vote each for the three species! Is there anything visible which excludes Monteiro's or SYB?

 

[dwatsonbirder]

Bump...

 

[Andy Hurley]

I agree with Andy. Damara. The spot pattern on the wing looks good too. Monteiro's has a cask, which I don't see on your bird, Daniel. The spot size on the wing is also smaller than on Southen Yellow-billed and not as close to each other, or as light. The latter also has a very white supercilium, rather than an off white or dirty white as seen here. I can't see a yellow eye. Not saying I can see that it is brown, but it looks darkish. I think that head isn't dark either, with much off white. Another point against Monteiro's. I'm a bit colour blind, but I think the bill is more reddish than yellow.

EDIT: I think this one is a female due to it's drabness.

 

[Butty]

The spot size on the wing is . . . [etc, etc]

You are reading far more into these very-low-quality (no offence to OP) images than can be safely relied on, especially as regards colour and dark/paleness. In my opinion.

 

[Andy Hurley]

Monteiro's Hornbill I think. Damara Red-billed is also not common south of Windhoek.

I have never seen one south of the capital, but I've only been that far south on two trips. I have the photographic Sasol and it shows an image of a Damara with brown patches on an off-white face as well as the white faced one. Monteiro's has a white tail with dark edges, while this has a dark tail with light edges.

 

[Andy Hurley]

You are reading far more into these very-low-quality (no offence to OP) images than can be safely relied on, especially as regards colour and dark/paleness. In my opinion.

I have my opinion too. Based on 9-10 3 week trips to Southen Africa (Would need to check). I think pattern can be seen well enough here to make an informed opinion.

 

[Butty]

Monteiro's has a white tail with dark edges

Actually the reverse of this. In the opinion of field guides and photos. So, not a distinguishing feature here.

 

[jobbuq]

I think damara can be excluded based on the size and shape of the bill. I think it fits best for Southern Yellow-billed

 

[Andy Hurley]

Actually the reverse of this. In the opinion of field guides and photos. So, not a distinguishing feature here.

My own photos and the photographic SASOL field guide shows it to be the case. But I'll accept it isn't written up as a distinguishing feature. But on the range maps in field guides alone, Southern Yellow-billed is the only one in range.

Don't know how much I trust range maps though, particularly in Namibia. Severe drought in some years and quite wet (for Namibia) in others, means birds are pushed into other areas. Also global warming is changing wildlife behaviour to a certain degree.

These two photos would end up in the bin for me, as Hornbills are quite common place in Southern Africa and I get and have much closer photographs of all of them except Silvery-cheeked. Haven't been in range yet.

 

[Butty]

My own photos and the photographic SASOL field guide shows it [that Monteiro's hornbill has a white tail with dark edges] to be the case.

Could you post some?

 

[Andy Hurley]

Sure

Damara

 

[Andy Hurley]

Monteiro's

 

[Butty]

Monteiro's

Those photos show a white outertail - the reverse of your statement above.