Hermit x townsend hybrid right? very minor black streaking near wing shoulder. June, south washington (1 Viewer)

[goawildlifeenthusiast]

 

[SweetiePie22]

It's a cool find! Minor black streaking near the wing shoulder in June is typical, especially in southern Washington.

 

[goawildlifeenthusiast]

It's a cool find! Minor black streaking near the wing shoulder in June is typical, especially in southern Washington.

hermit or hybrid? because i thought hybrid

 

[Brad Hacker]

In my experience...
Hermits can have some flank streaks. Hermit x Townsend hybrids have a bit of a black/gray cap or yellow in chest; this bird has neither.

 

[goawildlifeenthusiast]

In my experience...
Hermits can have some flank streaks. Hermit x Townsend hybrids have a bit of a black/gray cap or yellow in chest; this bird has neither.

Call was good for hermit. But in my little bit of experience townsends have been able to respond with a good hermit call. This individual had only those little streak. Rest all looked good for hermit I thought at least.

 

[SweetiePie22]

hermit or hybrid? because i thought hybrid

Yeah, I think it's a hybrid because it's smaller and has a short bill.

 

[Butty]

it's smaller

Is it?

 

[SweetiePie22]

Is it?

"Looks like" in the photo

 

[rkj]

Yeah, I think it's a hybrid because it's smaller and has a short bill.

"Looks like" in the photo

Can you explain, please, why a hybrid would be smaller, what it would be smaller than, how you can judge from this photo, and how you can judge the length of the bill when its tip is obscured by vegetation.

 

[SweetiePie22]

Hybrid birds are many times smaller because they have mixed genetics from both parent species, resulting in intermediate size. If you want to judge the size of a bird from a picture, pay attention to its proportions or compare it with familiar objects close by. To guess bill length when hidden, use the part you can see as a guide. It’s not exact like measuring directly, but with experience, you can make accurate estimations.

 

[Indobirder]

I don't get it. If it has an "intermediate size", then how can it be "many times smaller"?

Regarding the bird in question, I don't see any green in the mantle, nor any yellow on upper chest.

Sibley's shows streaks on the upper sides of the chest, so I think it's fine.

But I expect that there are many mostly-pure hybrids, so it depends on how picky you want to be. I would personally put it as Hermit, but I only have seen Townsend's.

 

[goawildlifeenthusiast]

I don't get it. If it has an "intermediate size", then how can it be "many times smaller"?

Regarding the bird in question, I don't see any green in the mantle, nor any yellow on upper chest.

Sibley's shows streaks on the upper sides of the chest, so I think it's fine.

But I expect that there are many mostly-pure hybrids, so it depends on how picky you want to be. I would personally put it as Hermit, but I only have seen Townsend's.

Do you mind uploading a pic or screenshot of the sibley picture of hermit warbler?

 

[Butty]

...with experience, you can make accurate estimations

I completely disagree - with this and with everything else in your comment #10. Your assumptions are - in my opinion - liable to be dangerously misleading and to lead potentially to incorrect identifications for you or for anyone else, however experienced, applying them.

 

[goawildlifeenthusiast]

I completely disagree - with this and with everything else in your comment #10. Your assumptions are - in my opinion - liable to be dangerously misleading and to lead potentially to incorrect identifications for you or for anyone else, however experienced, applying them.

Yeah, those are some outlandish opinions. Anyway do you have opinions on hybrid or hermit?

 

[Butty]

None.
It's purely a personal recommendation, but I would encourage you (I take it from your earlier comment that you haven't done) to buy/acquire Sibley: it's arguably the best regional field guide available for any part of the world, and any/every half-serious local birder should have it. In my opinion 👍🏼

 

[Southern Viking]

None.
It's purely a personal recommendation, but I would encourage you (I take it from your earlier comment that you haven't done) to buy/acquire Sibley: it's arguably the best regional field guide available for any part of the world, and any/every half-serious local birder should have it. In my opinion 👍🏼

Relevant bit here for the benefit of those who don't own it. In my opinion the OP bird looks fine for pure Hermit based on Sibley and photos I've seen online.

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

Hybrid birds are many times smaller because they have mixed genetics from both parent species, resulting in intermediate size. If you want to judge the size of a bird from a picture, pay attention to its proportions or compare it with familiar objects close by. To guess bill length when hidden, use the part you can see as a guide. It’s not exact like measuring directly, but with experience, you can make accurate estimations.

This statement is at least unclear , if not incorrect. i can not judge this for American warblers, but....

1. I have experence with hybrid bird identification since 1994, and can state that in some cases hybrids are smaller than would be expected from parent species involved , but in other cases they are larger, and in very many cases where there is a size difference between parents they are intermediate in size between the parents.
These hybrids I am speaking of are mainly waterfowl, as you will see when following this forum , but also birds from some other groups (songbirds , pigeons and doves , herons etc).

your statement "Hybrids are many times smaller because they have mixed genetics from both parent species, resulting in intermediate size" is unclear to me in that respect.

2. To compare a bird with familiar objects closeby, e.g. some plants- which are the only possibillity you have to compare with in the initial photo - you must be able to identify the plant to species, and you must take into account that plants of one species are much more variable than birds ... for exmple the needle length of douglas fir can vary greatly depending on the conditions it is growing (and I am leaving out subspecies here, which could add considerably to variation). Please note i am not saying the tree is a douglas fir! but if you can use it for size comparison you must be able to identify the tree species- so what is it?

 

[Brad Hacker]

Other resources definitely worth owning

• National Geographic Complete Birds of North America 2nd edition. J Alderfer et al. (This, the largest and most-comprehensive book on N American birds is often overlooked because people think it is the small Nat Geo field guide book; it is not).
• The Warbler Guide: Stephenson, Tom, Whittle, Scott (book)
• ‎The Warbler Guide (app)
• Warbler Guide App - Apps on Google Play (app)

 

[goawildlifeenthusiast]

Relevant bit here for the benefit of those who don't own it. In my opinion the OP bird looks fine for pure Hermit based on Sibley and photos I've seen online.

Do you have a pic of the pure hermit picture and description?

 

[Southern Viking]

Do you have a pic of the pure hermit picture and description?