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Hawk ID (Maryland USA) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Big Chain
- Start date
The Falcon
Registered Birder
I agree it is definitely a Cooper's Hawk.
The Falcon
Registered Birder
I jumped the gun a little to quickly there and didn't even give the photo a good look. I think you are right in suggesting Northern Goshawk.
The photo was taken at Black Water National Wildlife Refuge (near Chesapeak Bay, MD) on Monday by a fellow birder I was with.
Not sure if anyone noticed, it appers that the hawk has a kill. Since I saw the hawk with my bins, I can say that the hawk looks a lot different than my memory as compare to the photo....proof that sometimes you do not always see what you thought you saw..if that make any sense.
Also, please note the size of the tree trunk as compare to the hawk. Once thing for sure the diameter of the tree was at least 12 inches at DBH (Diameter At Breast Height)
So it does. Maybe--judging from the tail--a Northern Flicker?
Birdbrain22
Well-known member
My first thought was not a Coopers but a N. GoshawK. After looking more closely, I think the Red-shouldered ID is correct.
AsterixnObelix
Well-known member
Good point. Narrow bands, do look right for a juvenile Red-shouldered Hawk.
So far I am totally embrassed about my initial ID of the hawk when I first observed it. I yelled out rough-legged hawk as it took flight.
Can someone tell me why this hawk in not a sub-adult female red-tail ? I believe it is not a cooper's. It was fairly large, hence, female.
I did observed very distinct malar stripe on the bird, as well as the superciliary line, and noticed how light the overall color of the head (but please remember we had decent light from behind us while viewing of the hawk). Based on these observation, I could not convince myself that it was a immiture red-tailed initially.
Also, tail pattern seems to fit both red-shouldered and red-tailed.
However, both Sibley and Peterson also show light superciliary line on the immiture red-tailed.
Hmmm?? The plot doth begin to thicken. Matt has a good point; it does have a back pattern (scapular patches) similar to that of a Red-tailed Hawk, but not IMO as dominant as one would expect to see in a RTH.
I referred to my trusty Wheeler's Raptors of Eastern North America. Plate 348 shows a perched "Eastern" juvenile Red-tailed Hawk in a pose quite similar to the one shown here. The photo in the book shows a heavier white pattern overall on the back, especially on the wing coverts and a very broad white supercilium. And the tail bands seem narrower than the ones on the bird shown here. Plate 217 in the book shows a back view of a juvenile "Southern" Red-shouldered Hawk. (There is no corresponding photo of an "Eastern" juvenile RSH) It also has a back pattern with white marks, but they are not as dominant as on the RTH; and the tail shows narrow bands that look much like the bands in this birds tail. I also am not sure if we are seeing a part of the upper breast on the bird in this thread, because, if we are, it looks red, or dark, to me, and on a RTH, it should be light or white. If, instead, it is a shoulder we are looking at, it does appear to be rufous in color.
Bob
I referred to my trusty Wheeler's Raptors of Eastern North America. Plate 348 shows a perched "Eastern" juvenile Red-tailed Hawk in a pose quite similar to the one shown here. The photo in the book shows a heavier white pattern overall on the back, especially on the wing coverts and a very broad white supercilium. And the tail bands seem narrower than the ones on the bird shown here. Plate 217 in the book shows a back view of a juvenile "Southern" Red-shouldered Hawk. (There is no corresponding photo of an "Eastern" juvenile RSH) It also has a back pattern with white marks, but they are not as dominant as on the RTH; and the tail shows narrow bands that look much like the bands in this birds tail. I also am not sure if we are seeing a part of the upper breast on the bird in this thread, because, if we are, it looks red, or dark, to me, and on a RTH, it should be light or white. If, instead, it is a shoulder we are looking at, it does appear to be rufous in color.
Bob
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To follow up on the last post, the reason I yelled out rough-legged hawk was based on "what I thought I saw" a dark belly band and the dark carpal patches.
But, after second guessing myself many times, the belly band may not have been as dark as RLH, and could have resembled more or less streaks (may be found in RSH ?) or belly band that may be found in redtailed. And the dark carpal patches I "thought I saw" may have been dark patagital mark or just unusual dark under pattern of an juvenile red-tailed or red-shouldered.
I do not recall seeing any crescent-shape window wing panels as found in RSH, or heavy streaking of a juvenile g'hawk. As most agreed here, the tail pattern seems do not match the tails pattern of the G'hawk.
So it appears that it is a either juv red-tailed or juv red-shouldred. I would really like to narrow down on the final agreement on the ID. But for now, does everyone agree it is a red-shouldered ?
But, after second guessing myself many times, the belly band may not have been as dark as RLH, and could have resembled more or less streaks (may be found in RSH ?) or belly band that may be found in redtailed. And the dark carpal patches I "thought I saw" may have been dark patagital mark or just unusual dark under pattern of an juvenile red-tailed or red-shouldered.
I do not recall seeing any crescent-shape window wing panels as found in RSH, or heavy streaking of a juvenile g'hawk. As most agreed here, the tail pattern seems do not match the tails pattern of the G'hawk.
So it appears that it is a either juv red-tailed or juv red-shouldred. I would really like to narrow down on the final agreement on the ID. But for now, does everyone agree it is a red-shouldered ?
rb_stern
Richard stern
Hi again,
If it's a Red-tailed it would have to be a western "intermediate" form (was called rufous), given the amount of rufous on the breast. But it just doesn't have the proportions of a Red-tail. Looks fairly typical to me of a Red-shouldered, and the white edges on the coverts and scapulars looks quite OK for that species.
Incidentally, it looks nothing like either a Goshawk or a Rough-legged in this picture.
If it's a Red-tailed it would have to be a western "intermediate" form (was called rufous), given the amount of rufous on the breast. But it just doesn't have the proportions of a Red-tail. Looks fairly typical to me of a Red-shouldered, and the white edges on the coverts and scapulars looks quite OK for that species.
Incidentally, it looks nothing like either a Goshawk or a Rough-legged in this picture.
MLoyko
d[-_-]b
Just curious, where do you see the breast in this picture? All I see is the back of the bird with a little tuft of frontal feathering sticking out by the leg/talon area?
Here is a Juv red-tail with similar amounts of white on the back as the one in question.
http://friendsofhagermannwr.com/\images/photos/20080131165113_red_tailed_hawk_jc_cr.jpg
EDIT: Now these shots I found on the web probably take everything back to square one they now fuel the RSH debate as the other link helped out the RTH side.
http://images.google.com/imgres?img...juvenile+red-shouldered+hawk&gbv=2&hl=en&sa=G
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The Falcon
Registered Birder
Okay guys this is not either a Red-tailed Hawk nor a Red-shouldered Hawk. I don't know where you are getting a buteo from this photo. A buteo would not have the long tail as this bird has (a buteo tail wouldn't even be half the size of the OP's birds tail), notice on buteos, the primary projection reaches to the tail tip on most (while on a accipiter the primary projection don't come down more then half way on the tail). Also all buteos have a stocky shape, which this bird don't have. The overall GIZZ plus the long tail, rules out all chance of a buteo here.
Large slender hawk, long tail, brown above with white speckling, long dark brown tail with uneven black bars, pale eyebrow stripe on head all points towards Northern Goshawk.
Everybody seems to have a definite ID for this bird. And buteo is not the answer.
Large slender hawk, long tail, brown above with white speckling, long dark brown tail with uneven black bars, pale eyebrow stripe on head all points towards Northern Goshawk.
Everybody seems to have a definite ID for this bird. And buteo is not the answer.
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