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Fragrant Orchid species ID (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Binocularface
- Start date
davidearlgray
davidearlgray
Hi Tristan, do you know what the soil type was at the site of these Fragrant Orchids?
As there look like Common Fragrant to me?
I look forward to your reply,
Dave Gray.
As there look like Common Fragrant to me?
I look forward to your reply,
Dave Gray.
Ghostly Vision
Well-known member
Hi Tris
As Dave infers, borealis is the only species that grows on acidic soils, so that might be an indicator.
However, from th photos I would say on first glance without reference to books
1 & 2 - densiflora
3 & 5 - conopsea
4 poss densiflora but quite possibly conopsea.
Regards
Sean
As Dave infers, borealis is the only species that grows on acidic soils, so that might be an indicator.
However, from th photos I would say on first glance without reference to books
1 & 2 - densiflora
3 & 5 - conopsea
4 poss densiflora but quite possibly conopsea.
Regards
Sean
Binocularface
You've all got one...............!
Hi David & Sean,
Thanks for the assistance on this. Perhaps surprisingly all three species occur at the site where I took these images hence my confusion!
Sean - Could you elaborate on the key features for ID please?
Regards
Tristan
Thanks for the assistance on this. Perhaps surprisingly all three species occur at the site where I took these images hence my confusion!
Sean - Could you elaborate on the key features for ID please?
Regards
Tristan
Ghostly Vision
Well-known member
So that's Waitby Greenrigs then!
I am not aware of any borealis there, despite the publicity material that is put out. I and a number of others I know have looked recently but not managed to find them.
I have a file somewhere with the differences summarized, and will dig that out when I'm on my other PC (on work laptop at moment).
In short though,
densiflora: usually deeper pink flowers, densely packed. lip wider than long and with shoulders. Lateral sepals held horizontally and long and blunt. Often plants are tall.
conopsea: variable colour, but generally pale pink, can be white. Lip strongly three-lobed and same width as height, lateral sepals held below horizontal, looks like it is shrugging and bored.
borealis: same colour as conopsea, but to me averages paler, lip longer than wide with less of a three-lobed appearance. Seems small in relation to the rest of the flower. More a "tall triangle" shape. Lateral sepals large cf lip and blade-shaped (quite wide vertically if you get what I mean), held below horizontal. Also - acid soil = borealis! However, it does grow on neutral and alkaline soils as well.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Sean
I am not aware of any borealis there, despite the publicity material that is put out. I and a number of others I know have looked recently but not managed to find them.
I have a file somewhere with the differences summarized, and will dig that out when I'm on my other PC (on work laptop at moment).
In short though,
densiflora: usually deeper pink flowers, densely packed. lip wider than long and with shoulders. Lateral sepals held horizontally and long and blunt. Often plants are tall.
conopsea: variable colour, but generally pale pink, can be white. Lip strongly three-lobed and same width as height, lateral sepals held below horizontal, looks like it is shrugging and bored.
borealis: same colour as conopsea, but to me averages paler, lip longer than wide with less of a three-lobed appearance. Seems small in relation to the rest of the flower. More a "tall triangle" shape. Lateral sepals large cf lip and blade-shaped (quite wide vertically if you get what I mean), held below horizontal. Also - acid soil = borealis! However, it does grow on neutral and alkaline soils as well.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Sean
Binocularface
You've all got one...............!
Thanks Sean - Will have to visit the site again this year!
rmielcarek
Well-known member
Tristan
you aren't the only one who has trouble with Fragrants.
I've only seen borealis in the New Forest, and that seemed quite distinctive.
However I do have trouble seperating conopsea from densiflora - this might be becuase both are scarce around here so I don't get much practice.
There are only two sites locally that I see them regularly; one is a dry field on the top of the Mendips, which I assume are conopsea, the other is a marshy field much lower where they grow with Heath Spotted and Marsh Helleborine - I assume that these are densiflora.
At both sites the majority of plants have the expected flower shape, but there are a number that suggest the other species. But I assume that at each site, both of which are relatively small, there is only one species involved.
Anyone like to guess at which of the 2 sites I photographed each of these?
Rich M
you aren't the only one who has trouble with Fragrants.
I've only seen borealis in the New Forest, and that seemed quite distinctive.
However I do have trouble seperating conopsea from densiflora - this might be becuase both are scarce around here so I don't get much practice.
There are only two sites locally that I see them regularly; one is a dry field on the top of the Mendips, which I assume are conopsea, the other is a marshy field much lower where they grow with Heath Spotted and Marsh Helleborine - I assume that these are densiflora.
At both sites the majority of plants have the expected flower shape, but there are a number that suggest the other species. But I assume that at each site, both of which are relatively small, there is only one species involved.
Anyone like to guess at which of the 2 sites I photographed each of these?
Rich M
Attachments
Last edited:
rmielcarek
Well-known member
Ghostly Vision
Well-known member
Hi Richard,
I'll take a punt at your pics and suggest that all but the last one are conopsea. The last seems to be borealis.
It's surprising that densiflora is not more widespread near you. Borealis, as the name implies, has the tendency to be the most northerly. The one we get in the midlands is conopsea.
Regards
Sean
I'll take a punt at your pics and suggest that all but the last one are conopsea. The last seems to be borealis.
It's surprising that densiflora is not more widespread near you. Borealis, as the name implies, has the tendency to be the most northerly. The one we get in the midlands is conopsea.
Regards
Sean
rmielcarek
Well-known member
Sean
Borealis eh! That would be a turn up for the book, photographed in North Somerset. I've attached another image of the same plant.
I'll see if anyone else wants to express an opinion on all the pictures before I tell you where they were photographed.
Richard
Attachments
Is that last one a ropy densiflora? Besides habitat, where I live (Berkshire Downs), the flowering period of both do not really overlap. Fragrant is in flower now and Marsh Fragrant wont be in flower until next month (stragglers aside that is). I was speaking to someone recently who thinks that the smell is different between the two (not sure about Borealis). Something to try...
Cheers
Gareth
Ghostly Vision
Well-known member
Hi Richard
Some of the other florets show a clear tri-lobed lip, so I'd guess that this is also conopsea.
Not being aware of where or when they were photographed sometimes helps I think - prevents bias.
Cheers
Sean
Some of the other florets show a clear tri-lobed lip, so I'd guess that this is also conopsea.
Not being aware of where or when they were photographed sometimes helps I think - prevents bias.
Cheers
Sean
Binocularface
You've all got one...............!
Ghostly Vision
Well-known member
I'll go densiflora on that.
Sean
Sean
rmielcarek
Well-known member
OK, the pictures in post #7 were taken as follows;
Top left and top middle - Chancellors Farm 16th June 2006
Top right - Max Bog 27th June 2006
Bottom left - Max Bog 27th June 2006
Bottom right - Chancellors Farm 27th June 2006
Both pictures in post #8 were taken at Max Bog, the left hand one on 3rd July 2005 and the right hand one on 27th June 2006.
The picture in post #10 was taken at Max Bog on 27th June 2006.
Chancellors Farm is a dry field on Mendip, Green-winged Orchids also occur there. I would therefore have expected to find conopsea there.
Max Bog is lower and a small, very wet, boggy field. Marsh helleborine, Heath Spotted orchid, Black Bog-rush and a small number of Pugsleys Marsh orchids all grow there. The habitat seems better suited to densiflora but the flower spikes have never seemed to be dense.
Rich M
Top left and top middle - Chancellors Farm 16th June 2006
Top right - Max Bog 27th June 2006
Bottom left - Max Bog 27th June 2006
Bottom right - Chancellors Farm 27th June 2006
Both pictures in post #8 were taken at Max Bog, the left hand one on 3rd July 2005 and the right hand one on 27th June 2006.
The picture in post #10 was taken at Max Bog on 27th June 2006.
Chancellors Farm is a dry field on Mendip, Green-winged Orchids also occur there. I would therefore have expected to find conopsea there.
Max Bog is lower and a small, very wet, boggy field. Marsh helleborine, Heath Spotted orchid, Black Bog-rush and a small number of Pugsleys Marsh orchids all grow there. The habitat seems better suited to densiflora but the flower spikes have never seemed to be dense.
Rich M
