Flycatcher Portland UK (2 Viewers)

[Bismarck Honeyeater]

This Flycatcher was at Portland UK, this morning. Interested in comments. Only one photo.

(Thanks to Debbie Saunders via Twitter for pic)

 

[Ratal]

Adult Female Pied Flycatcher

 

[KenM]

FWIW here's a presumed 1st Winter male Collared Flycatcher, taken in Cyprus c3 weeks ago, compare....

 

[Bismarck Honeyeater]

Should say picture not mine, thanks to @debbyseamist

Twitterati seem to be in favour of Collared

 

[phil baber]

Latest examinations.... http://portlandbirdobs.blogspot.co.uk/search

 

[Jane Turner]

That is one massive primary patch

 

[Tib78]

FWIW here's a presumed 1st Winter male Collared Flycatcher, taken in Cyprus c3 weeks ago, compare....

Ken,

As I said in the original thread, your bird can't be a 1st winter because at this time of the year a 2cy bird would be called a 1st summer. But anyway it looks like an adult to me (black primaries with large primary patch). And it's definitely not a male, a male Collared of any age would look very different in april.

 

[KFC]

Some pics I took of the bird yesterday. Much poorer quality than those at e.g. http://bretteeblahblahblah.blogspot.co.uk/ and http://portlandbirdobs.blogspot.co.uk/search but they might show something. The primary patch is large but I'm trying to get a good impression of the extent of white in the tail... and failing. Is this 'just' a brown male pied fly with a large primary patch?

 

[KFC]

And three more - all shots merely cropped. No other manipulation.

Ken

 

[Tib78]

The forehead seemingly lacks any white patch above the bill. This would be odd for a male Pied fly.

I have been wrong several times in the past with those difficult female-plumaged Ficedula, so I'll keep my mouth shut from now on. A tricky bird.

 

[KFC]

The forehead seemingly lacks any white patch above the bill. This would be odd for a male Pied fly.

I have been wrong several times in the past with those difficult female-plumaged Ficedula, so I'll keep my mouth shut from now on. A tricky bird.

Please don't keep your mouth shut - we learn from each other. That said, I think the last of my photos shows a small white patch bisected as they usually are in Pied Fly. It's a bit of a 'ghost' of a patch rather than a full on blaze, but I'm pretty sure it's there.

Ken

 

[Brian J Small]

I think that Bret's sexing based on the pale patches above the bill is open to question - female Collareds regularly have these. Below are a selection of images showing this feature. http://www.rarebirdalert.co.uk/v2/Content/images/articles/2013-24/collared-flycatcher.jpg - spring Fair Isle
http://www.tarsiger.com/images/karainio/Ficalb_Jurmo_20110522_03.jpg
http://www.tarsiger.com/images/JukkaJ/FICALB_080514_UTO_4153.jpg
http://www.tarsiger.com/images/pirpa/ficalb060527lagsi2.jpg and the same bird from head on http://www.tarsiger.com/images/pirpa/ficalb060527lagsi5.jpg
http://www.tarsiger.com/images/SL/ficalb_220506_2.jpg- Collared on right

The one feature that does seem like that of a male is the amount of white on the tertials, but even this is very variable - check out the above images - and these have been replaced. I racked my memory for the impression of grey male Pieds from Eastern Europe and I suspect that they all showed more white on the greater coverts and probably the tertials too - http://www.tarsiger.com/images/pirpa/hyp1.JPG. I would have like more pale in the hindneck feathers creating a 'shadow' of the collar, but there is some white in the feathers - see this http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=496348&d=1399830397

Brian S

 

[Tib78]

That said, I think the last of my photos shows a small white patch bisected as they usually are in Pied Fly. It's a bit of a 'ghost' of a patch rather than a full on blaze, but I'm pretty sure it's there.

Hi Ken,

My interpretation would be different: the small patch above the bill base looks buffish instead of white. And its shape does not look typical for male. I'd say it is just the pale patch shown by females. See for example:
- http://fleetwoodbirder.blogspot.fr/2013/05/the-plot-thickens.html
- http://www.tarsiger.com/gallery/index.php?pic_id=SL1151482426&lang=eng

Some grey-brown males for comparison:
- http://edwardjohnesphotography.com/Gallery/BRITISH-WILD-BIRDS/(offset)/160
- http://faculty.ucr.edu/~chappell/INW/birds5/piedflycatcher.shtml (a bit overexposed)
- http://www.tarsiger.com/gallery/index.php?pic_id=pirpa1181819255&lang=eng (a nice 2cy)

But I also stumbled across this bird that shows an alarmingly reduced white patch: http://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/uu/images/european-pied-flycatcher-158994 (!).

However to my eyes the general colouring of the Portland bird does not fit a grey-brown male, it is too uniformely dark brown.

Now I must say that when I looked at the first image provided by the OP, my first thought went for female Collared fly because of the large primary patch and seemingly grey hue to the mantle.

But with the new images I am now favouring a female Pied with a larger primary patch.

I could well be wrong though...

edit: hmm I see Brian was a bit faster.

 

[Jane Turner]

I don't suppose it was calling-the calls are quite distinct on sonagram

 

[Xenospiza]

A very quick scan through brown males from the Netherlands on waarneming.nl suggests that they appear to show a smaller primary patch (often invisible!) and more white on the secondaries than the Portland bird.

 

[KFC]

I don't suppose it was calling-the calls are quite distinct on sonagram

I didn't hear it, Jane. It was the least observable and shyest of the small number of flycatchers present (the others were Spot Flies) but did come close at times. It was so windy that it was difficult to hear anything, although I did hear the spot flies a couple of times. Perhaps someone else heard or even recorded it.

Cheers
Ken

 

[Jane Turner]

Collared is a slightly longer call-to human ear is sounds a little less clipped than Pied



The structure of the callis different too

 

[KenM]

Ken,

As I said in the original thread, your bird can't be a 1st winter because at this time of the year a 2cy bird would be called a 1st summer. But anyway it looks like an adult to me (black primaries with large primary patch). And it's definitely not a male, a male Collared of any age would look very different in april.

Regarding the Portland bird...Is it an artefact? In image 2 of Ken's shot of four, there appears to be a subdued collar and lesser covert bar showing, albeit not as strong or absent as in the rest of his images.

To revert back to my previously ''claimed'' Semi-collared Flycatcher, This was dismissed out of hand, on the basis that the white margins (webbing) on the tertials were excessive, thus didn't conform to the ''Classic'' SCF, presumably had the margins been typical, it would have been acceptable as such?

Yet..It is now acceptable to conveniently default the Portland bird (according to your reasoning) to Pied Flycatcher, with an abnormally large primary patch, and reduced fore-crown patch, neither feature being supportive of hypoleuca!!!....on that reasoning, doesn't my suggested 1st calendar year (grey),Cyprus male Semi collared Flycatcher carry more consideration?

And just to add, don't all three ''types'' where overlapping, hybridise to an extent, thus providing more variations on a theme....does anybody really know what they are talking about, or is it just speculation based on the last paper published by whoever?

 

[KenM]

Thought I'd bump this.

 

[KFC]

....does anybody really know what they are talking about, or is it just speculation based on the last paper published by whoever?

You do get that impression with the black and white ficedulas. I liked what was written on the Portland Obs website and think it probably sums it up nicely;

"So, goodness knows what all this means and it probably doesn't matter anyway since our interpretation of the saga of the infamous 'Flamborough flycatcher' is that a) whatever it looks like it's going to be Pied, and b) however expensive your optics are they can't read DNA so you may as well not bother to look at birds like this in the field because you're never going to be able to learn any lessons that'll be any use to you in the future; quite likely only a feather or two would furnish us with the answer..." 3

All the best
Ken